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Dominik



Joined: Oct 29, 2004

Post   Posted: Mar 25, 2020 - 00:20 Reply with quote Back to top

mrt1212 wrote:
Looking at skill selection, a lot of my teams have some wacky combos and 'dead skills' which I try to show love to as a 'proof of utility, no matter how marginal'.

Dakka, you remember chiding me for FA gobbos with underworld against your Vampires? I do, and I still savor that game.

https://fumbbl.com/p/match?id=3849949

That is outright insane: https://fumbbl.com/p/player?player_id=13063516
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Mar 25, 2020 - 00:22 Reply with quote Back to top

mrt1212 wrote:
Dakka, you remember chiding me for FA gobbos with underworld against your Vampires? I do, and I still savor that game.

https://fumbbl.com/p/match?id=3849949

I still think that FA is a bad choice on UW Goblins, Two Heads is better.
The fact is, 1170 TV Vampires lack Tackle, core skills and roll many dice on their own, Dodge + FA is strong in that particular match-up, but that's due more to Vampire struggling vs Dodgers at low TV and Thralls suck too.
FA just adds an extra factor and it's really too random to rely on it.
You are picking a very particular match-up to claim that FA is good, while you should consider a wider typology of match-ups.
MrCushtie



Joined: Aug 10, 2018

Post   Posted: Mar 25, 2020 - 00:37 Reply with quote Back to top

Well, on the one hand mrt1212 is putting frenzy on players, which is objectively a Good Thing. But he's also putting Guard on players, which is objectively a Bad Thing. (citing the academic source here: MrCushtie, The Definitive Answer To What Skill To Take, (Fumbbl, 2019)).

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MenonaLoco



Joined: Jan 05, 2016

Post   Posted: Mar 25, 2020 - 20:05 Reply with quote Back to top

Alright, these are the types then? Are there sub-types?

1) Experience seeker:

a) BUILDER (seeking pixel exp)
b) OMNIVORE (play in all kinds of formates, seaking coach exp)

2) Challenge seeker:

a) HIGHLANDER (tournament coaches, seaking to be THE one)
b) SHELOB (minmaxers, sweetspotters, "in my little world of tunnels, i am the monster")
c) IRONMAN (grid fillers, long time challenges, they just keep going)

3) Creativity seeker:

a) Dr. EMMET BROWN (unique rosterbuilder)
b) TOLKIEN (fluff-master)
c) HANNIBAL (tactical mayhem)

Did i miss something out or did i get it wrong?

And then what tomake of it, cause everybody will have multiple types. Just get the "badge" of the most obvious trait, or do percentages?
bghandras



Joined: Feb 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Mar 25, 2020 - 22:57 Reply with quote Back to top

I think you got it right. I would like to add at least another one for experience seeker:
The sympthom comes up, when the guy wants to make an impression on
- opponent
- himself
- spectators
Most basic example might be fouling when spectators stomp without tactical consideration. But there might be multiple tactically sound decisions, in which case a thrill seeker will go for the big play.

Most coaches are a combination of all 3 of those motives, but one of them is generally more dominant than the others.

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'Best thing on FUMBBL'(Seventyone),
'AWESOME'(Kummo), 'Last league i would leave'(SpecialOne), 'Far far the BEST thing i played online'(Grunth)
mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Mar 25, 2020 - 23:08 Reply with quote Back to top

So take Menona's posts and apply it to Arktoris, Swampserpent, Me, and Quarion8

Experience:

I would say that Experientially we are totally builders but we aren't exactly pixel huggers either in the pursuit.

Challenge: I know that Quarion8 and myself are Highlanders by being tourney players (I'm #12 on SR, muaahahhahaha) but I think I am also a Shelob with Monoactivating Max/Max teams and crushing smallman, for example. And definitely have done the Grid Filling in my time with a 92% fill rate in Box.

Creativity: Dr. Emmet Brown and Hannibal, for sure. Not a Fluff Master at all although I love the history of teams. I just don't care to write it down and keep the story going in my head.


I think that this is a good start and we can add more qualifiers and differentiators on top.

Arrested Development Would you say Our Pheno is

1-A
2-ABC
3-AC

As a general start?

To bghandras - when you say make an impression, I am having a hard time ever thinking of making am impression on myself. Like, I'm doing stuff to delight the audience and piss off the other coach. What would be making an impression on yourself?
mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Mar 25, 2020 - 23:09 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:
mrt1212 wrote:
Dakka, you remember chiding me for FA gobbos with underworld against your Vampires? I do, and I still savor that game.

https://fumbbl.com/p/match?id=3849949

I still think that FA is a bad choice on UW Goblins, Two Heads is better.
The fact is, 1170 TV Vampires lack Tackle, core skills and roll many dice on their own, Dodge + FA is strong in that particular match-up, but that's due more to Vampire struggling vs Dodgers at low TV and Thralls suck too.
FA just adds an extra factor and it's really too random to rely on it.
You are picking a very particular match-up to claim that FA is good, while you should consider a wider typology of match-ups.


My entire rationale is different than yours, fundamentally - I live in the moment and you live in the averages.

I think you're about as opposite me in some ways with BB as possible. For instance the entire conception of what constitutes an even matchup with Box activations has been one of our long running spats. I'm there to basically punish your conception of fair sometimes to hilarious effect. Rhetorically I inject that game to salt your entire rationale and interaction with the game.

And I admit, you are a superior BB coach on average but you also tune your experience to one fundamental task, which is alien to how I experience BB. And sometimes FA activates in a nice way in defiance of those who dismiss it. Wink

The entire point of this thread is to explore what makes us different and where we're coming from and finding adjacent comparisons to ourselves.

I don't know how you'll take it but your style reminds me a lot of Dominik in some way. But that also might be because you're both similar attitude-wise with BB. Wink
bghandras



Joined: Feb 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Mar 25, 2020 - 23:25 Reply with quote Back to top

mrt1212 wrote:
To bghandras - when you say make an impression, I am having a hard time ever thinking of making am impression on myself. Like, I'm doing stuff to delight the audience and piss off the other coach. What would be making an impression on yourself?

When i wrote that, i meant as either or, not a strict all 3 must apply connection. But to play along, and impression to yourself might be doing the 2+ longbomb, or get the favorite player to legend. I do not mean it applies to you, just some examples i saw while playing.

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'Best thing on FUMBBL'(Seventyone),
'AWESOME'(Kummo), 'Last league i would leave'(SpecialOne), 'Far far the BEST thing i played online'(Grunth)
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Mar 25, 2020 - 23:37 Reply with quote Back to top

mrt1212 wrote:

I don't know how you'll take it but your style reminds me a lot of Dominik in some way. But that also might be because you're both similar attitude-wise with BB. Wink

Don't think so, Dominik plays mostly in Ranked, I don't play in Ranked anymore, and unlike me in Box he plays mostly 3 bash races, Nurgle, Khemri and Chaos.
I favour agile races, although I try to be all-rounded.
Also, he monoactivated in Box, I don't.
mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Mar 25, 2020 - 23:55 Reply with quote Back to top

I dont think the Box/Ranked stuff matters for this kind of thing except at the very tail end of things. It's not a starting point of differentiation.
mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Mar 25, 2020 - 23:58 Reply with quote Back to top

bghandras wrote:
mrt1212 wrote:
To bghandras - when you say make an impression, I am having a hard time ever thinking of making am impression on myself. Like, I'm doing stuff to delight the audience and piss off the other coach. What would be making an impression on yourself?

When i wrote that, i meant as either or, not a strict all 3 must apply connection. But to play along, and impression to yourself might be doing the 2+ longbomb, or get the favorite player to legend. I do not mean it applies to you, just some examples i saw while playing.


Ah okay, that makes sense.
Dominik



Joined: Oct 29, 2004

Post   Posted: Mar 26, 2020 - 00:00 Reply with quote Back to top

I monoactivated because I wanted to get either my Ranked or Blackbox Nurgle team in shape (the only two teams ready for a Major at that time). I do not like to coach Elves. And I do not like to play soft vs bashy. Apart from that I believe that we have the same playstyle and skill preference.
thoralf



Joined: Mar 06, 2008

Post   Posted: Mar 26, 2020 - 00:58 Reply with quote Back to top

Dominik wrote:
That is outright insane: https://fumbbl.com/p/player?player_id=13063516


This is not:

https://fumbbl.com/p/player?player_id=12932180

Style matters.

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MenonaLoco



Joined: Jan 05, 2016

Post   Posted: Mar 26, 2020 - 08:35 Reply with quote Back to top

Yeah, i didn't include monoactivater, pixel hugger, long turn "thinker", etc. cause you will find any of those in any type-cthegory.
Pixel hugger for example is more related to bash coach, than to builder type.
I must know... Wink
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