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Poll
Chameoleon Skinks???
Love them
43%
 43%  [ 34 ]
Trash
24%
 24%  [ 19 ]
SKINKS ONLY FOOL!
32%
 32%  [ 25 ]
Total Votes : 78


Lex_Rocket



Joined: Oct 27, 2018

Post   Posted: May 26, 2020 - 21:48 Reply with quote Back to top

I thought you weren't supposed to develop a passing game?

:p

I get what you're saying though, a smart coach can still use a runner to add something to the team. There's not much a smart coach can do with chameleon skinks they can't with regular skinks. I guess I've just see new DE coaches misusing the runner a lot.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: May 26, 2020 - 22:03 Reply with quote Back to top

Yes, passing game is not a plan A, but in some situations necessary.
A Runner with Hail Mary Pass (so, just 1 skill) can be used as punter while deep stalling, anyway, with Leader he has some utility in young DE teams.
gamelsetlmatch



Joined: Mar 05, 2013

Post   Posted: May 26, 2020 - 22:05 Reply with quote Back to top

They are not bad as a back corner cage piece, if the ball gets knocked loose, their shadowing of 7ma isnt horrible and the pass block, vs elves, can at least alter their tactics enough to make them roll one or two more dice to avoid him which means more failing for them

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ArrestedDevelopment



Joined: Sep 14, 2015

Post   Posted: May 26, 2020 - 22:06 Reply with quote Back to top

Lex_Rocket wrote:
Chameleon skinks at the very least don't drag the team down, the only players they're liable to take SPP from are skinks who to me, should only be getting more than 2 skills if they land a double or stat.


You introduce the basic idea of controlling TV, yet are willing to pay 10k tax per player for lower movement (on a team where after ST MA is the big thing), and 4 skills that you wouldn't take early on a normal skink, and add little to your game vs the vast majority of teams and opponents.

That's kind of the definition of dragging the team down to me.

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MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: May 26, 2020 - 22:12 Reply with quote Back to top

Also, there is no much room for gimmick players on a Lizardmen team: 7 players are Saurus and Kroxigor, 1 Skink ball carrier with AG 4 and ideally at least +MA, the rest fodder Skinks.
If you have only normal Skinks, you are increasing the chance of rolling a +stat on a MA 8 Skink (just nominate a Skink with 2-3 SPPs from time to time). I don't think I would bother to skill up a MA 7 Chameleon Skink.
Skink must be fast and agile, a MA 7 is already worse than a MA 8 Skink for that purpose.
C3I2



Joined: Feb 08, 2005

Post   Posted: May 26, 2020 - 22:39 Reply with quote Back to top

So its one Pegasus, several Pegasi unless they are Dinos?
Lex_Rocket



Joined: Oct 27, 2018

Post   Posted: May 26, 2020 - 22:42 Reply with quote Back to top

ArrestedDevelopment wrote:
Lex_Rocket wrote:
Chameleon skinks at the very least don't drag the team down, the only players they're liable to take SPP from are skinks who to me, should only be getting more than 2 skills if they land a double or stat.


You introduce the basic idea of controlling TV, yet are willing to pay 10k tax per player for lower movement (on a team where after ST MA is the big thing), and 4 skills that you wouldn't take early on a normal skink, and add little to your game vs the vast majority of teams and opponents.

That's kind of the definition of dragging the team down to me.


You're taking something I wanted to talk about with the intention of having fun very seriously, splitting hairs and talking down to me.

Matt just put forth the idea of developing a HMP utility player on low TV DE team because it might come in handy. I don't think that's any more or less valid than paying this 10k tax to have a extra odd abilities on a fodder player.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: May 26, 2020 - 23:00 Reply with quote Back to top

Wait, I said that low TV DE teams can benefit from Leader on a Runner.
The Hail Mary Pass idea is not necessarily related to low TV DE team, never said that.
To deep stall properly, a DE team has to be a bit developed, at low TV I would take Blodge on a DE runner first to give him some protection.
And still, I would not use a Chameleon Skink, because he has nothing really special over a normal Skink.
+MA is better than Pass Block and Shadowing.
ArrestedDevelopment



Joined: Sep 14, 2015

Post   Posted: May 26, 2020 - 23:17 Reply with quote Back to top

Lex_Rocket wrote:
ArrestedDevelopment wrote:
Lex_Rocket wrote:
Chameleon skinks at the very least don't drag the team down, the only players they're liable to take SPP from are skinks who to me, should only be getting more than 2 skills if they land a double or stat.


You introduce the basic idea of controlling TV, yet are willing to pay 10k tax per player for lower movement (on a team where after ST MA is the big thing), and 4 skills that you wouldn't take early on a normal skink, and add little to your game vs the vast majority of teams and opponents.

That's kind of the definition of dragging the team down to me.


You're taking something I wanted to talk about with the intention of having fun very seriously, splitting hairs and talking down to me.

Matt just put forth the idea of developing a HMP utility player on low TV DE team because it might come in handy. I don't think that's any more or less valid than paying this 10k tax to have a extra odd abilities on a fodder player.


I'm doing nothing of the kind. Please project elsewhere. I actually originally started that paragraph with "here's what I don't understand" then deleted it as I thought it might come across as ridicule.

One of the issues with replying to threads in this forum is there is a dichotomy which you must be aware of when you do: between those who simply wish to select the optimal skills or present the best tactics, and those who simply wish to have fun or create.

And then you need to be aware that plenty of people read these threads looking for serious advice and are unable to tell the difference between the two, which sometimes overrides your predisposition to just leave things well alone.

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MarckusOfCamlan



Joined: Jul 20, 2017

Post   Posted: Jun 01, 2020 - 23:37 Reply with quote Back to top

If they're so bad, why not giving them +1 armor so the shadowing+pass block become less suicidal? Either same price or +10 k.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Jun 01, 2020 - 23:46 Reply with quote Back to top

Even with +AV they would still be squishy due to Stunty and too expensive.
MarckusOfCamlan



Joined: Jul 20, 2017

Post   Posted: Jun 02, 2020 - 15:39 Reply with quote Back to top

So are the Skink. So what changes would you think smart to make them on par with regular skinks in term of value per cost unit while keeping the fluff?


This question is open.

Diversity is good for the fun. If a type of players are not interesting, something has to be changeed.
pedro_fgomes



Joined: Mar 25, 2018

Post   Posted: Jun 02, 2020 - 16:13 Reply with quote Back to top

Probbaly they only exist because GW wanted to take a shot at 3rd party manufaturers...

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Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Jun 02, 2020 - 17:08 Reply with quote Back to top

MarckusOfCamlan wrote:
So are the Skink. So what changes would you think smart to make them on par with regular skinks in term of value per cost unit while keeping the fluff?


This question is open.

Diversity is good for the fun. If a type of players are not interesting, something has to be changeed.


It's not that they are uninteresting, it is that they are suboptimal. As I previously said, the last thing lizardmen needed was a buff, even if it was a tiny buff. It would be criminal.

Really they shouldn't have bothered adding the Chameleon the roster was fine as it was. However adding a fluff choice is fine as the less competative people might enjoy the player and the more competative can ignore them.

As such it is a fine addition to the roster and really the design teams only option, even if it is overall pretty "meh"

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MarckusOfCamlan



Joined: Jul 20, 2017

Post   Posted: Jun 04, 2020 - 00:24 Reply with quote Back to top

The idea isn't to make them better than regular skink, but same level.

Foul appearance instead of +1 armour could represent their capacity to change colour.

But maybe the issue is more general with pass block : their is not much incentive to make passes, so pass block is un, but a gadget most of the time.
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