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Poll
Should the new rules eliminate natural oneturners?
Limit Max mv to 9, to hell with natural one turners
33%
 33%  [ 32 ]
No way that will favor bash way too much
40%
 40%  [ 38 ]
One Turn Pie
26%
 26%  [ 25 ]
Total Votes : 95


uzkulak



Joined: Mar 30, 2004

Post   Posted: Aug 03, 2020 - 22:27 Reply with quote Back to top

Muff2n wrote:
mekutata wrote:
why even play turn 16 then?


Yeah, I could follow that to its conclusion. If someone scores in T8 or T16, straight to end of half or end of match. Ofc you're giving up on a chance of scoring due to riot, etc. but I'd make that trade to speed up the game.


I don't agree with this Im afraid. T8 (and T16) is often important to recover kos and give a chance to take out some opposing players, even if there is no OTTD potential.

I should add, more directly relevant to the original question. One-turning is a strategic choice - you sacrifice in other areas to create that opportunity for yourself. It seems fair to me, but I do follow the argument that it should be made more difficult. Higher dice roll required for a sprinting gfi or significantly higher tv cost for a mv10 player both spring to mind.
Swampserpent



Joined: Jan 20, 2018

Post   Posted: Aug 03, 2020 - 23:18 Reply with quote Back to top

And this is being debated like it will have any effect to how GW is writing/ already has wrote the new rules?...

yea.
mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Aug 03, 2020 - 23:25 Reply with quote Back to top

Swampserpent wrote:
And this is being debated like it will have any effect to how GW is writing/ already has wrote the new rules?...

yea.


Don't look at me, I've taken the discussion to reciprocal perspective...
gamelsetlmatch



Joined: Mar 05, 2013

Post   Posted: Aug 04, 2020 - 00:10 Reply with quote Back to top

You guys act like its anywhere close to being broken lmao

I like to think of a OTS very much like a kick off return. Our 'special teams' are how we line up on defense and how we develop our meat shields or be willing to let their hitter Tee off on our play makers

I mean, OTS any race arent lighting up the Majors wins back to back to back
It takes a lot of dice

**Most of the time**
1) Pick up the ball
2)pass
3)catch
4)hand off
5)catch in a tz
6)dodge from tz
7)gfi
8)gfi
9)gfi

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Balle2000



Joined: Sep 25, 2008

Post   Posted: Aug 04, 2020 - 00:13 Reply with quote Back to top

Stalling and one turning are inferior game mechanics. Not sure if there are any decent ways to fix them, but would be nice if there were.
mekutata



Joined: May 03, 2015

Post   Posted: Aug 04, 2020 - 00:34 Reply with quote Back to top

uzkulak wrote:
Muff2n wrote:
mekutata wrote:
why even play turn 16 then?


Yeah, I could follow that to its conclusion. If someone scores in T8 or T16, straight to end of half or end of match. Ofc you're giving up on a chance of scoring due to riot, etc. but I'd make that trade to speed up the game.


I don't agree with this Im afraid. T8 (and T16) is often important to recover kos and give a chance to take out some opposing players, even if there is no OTTD potential.

I should add, more directly relevant to the original question. One-turning is a strategic choice - you sacrifice in other areas to create that opportunity for yourself. It seems fair to me, but I do follow the argument that it should be made more difficult. Higher dice roll required for a sprinting gfi or significantly higher tv cost for a mv10 player both spring to mind.


yes and no, because o specifically talked about a t16, assuming the result has priority over cas etc

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Grod



Joined: Sep 30, 2003

Post   Posted: Aug 04, 2020 - 03:32 Reply with quote Back to top

What about removing turn 16 fouls as well? Easy rule fix?

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PaddyMick



Joined: Jan 03, 2012

Post   Posted: Aug 04, 2020 - 08:34 Reply with quote Back to top

Grod wrote:
What about removing turn 16 fouls as well? Easy rule fix?


Surely you mean, how can we make them compulsory?
Shraaaag



Joined: Feb 15, 2004

Post   Posted: Aug 04, 2020 - 09:21 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:
At best it's not 3 GFIs, if you can chainpush you can gain some squares.
Or with Quick Snap, free extra square, just 2 GFIs with a MA 10 player assuming no chainpush.
Also, with High Kick you could not have to pick up the ball, you could catch it and then just hand it off to the one turner (if we are talking about MA 10 one turners we are probably talking about Skaven and Wood Elves, both with agile and fast players able to catch a High Kick).
I used High Kick as example because it counters Kick.


You still need to roll dice. You still need to roll block dice when you chainpush, and your opponent can make it harder with stand firm, and side step and placement of players.
Kick-off is a roll. Chances of getting quick snap (4 in 36) or high kick (4 in 36) is lower than succeeding a gfi (5 in 6)

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Bram



Joined: Jan 04, 2008

Post   Posted: Aug 04, 2020 - 09:49 Reply with quote Back to top

NickNutria wrote:
One turners are fun, they are rare and get fouled quite often, so they don't survive that long. I've got no problem with them, I think grinding your way to an eight turn touchdown is much more boring for the opponent.


+1
Balle2000



Joined: Sep 25, 2008

Post   Posted: Aug 04, 2020 - 10:23 Reply with quote Back to top

NickNutria wrote:
One turners are fun

[...]

grinding your way to an eight turn touchdown is much more boring for the opponent.

This is not an either or thing though. Would be nice if they could rid us of both.
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Aug 04, 2020 - 12:22 Reply with quote Back to top

Bring back thunderbolt and have two rostered wizards each? Mr. Green

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MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Aug 04, 2020 - 12:58 Reply with quote Back to top

Shraaaag wrote:

You still need to roll dice. You still need to roll block dice when you chainpush, and your opponent can make it harder with stand firm, and side step and placement of players.
Kick-off is a roll. Chances of getting quick snap (4 in 36) or high kick (4 in 36) is lower than succeeding a gfi (5 in 6)

The dice you have to roll still don't make the 1TTD hard enough as it should be such a gamechanging thing.
As I said, a natural one turner could score with a sequence of 2+, without requiring much thinking (AG 5 MA 10 Leap player can do it easily, I do it often and it's not hard, otherwise my Skaven would not have 70% win rate).
I'm not talking about one turning with a MA 7 or MA 8 player, but with a MA 10.

About Kick-Off roll: maybe High Kick or Quick Snap will not happen, but even if they don't happen (and they could) scoring is quite easy, compared to the payoff.

Do you think if 1TTD were hard I would support nerfing it, as a coach who likes to play with agile teams?
Since I play often with my agile teams I know it's easy, therefore I endorse a nerf.
I like balance.
ClayInfinity



Joined: Aug 15, 2003

Post   Posted: Aug 04, 2020 - 13:40 Reply with quote Back to top

I dont have an issue with a 10MA player... if you come across one of them in game, and you grind for 8 turns thats your issue.

Tactically, if there is an opposing 10MA Ag5 Leaper, what you need to do is kick first, flush him out and then get ahead 2-1 and pray that you have slaughtered enough rats to make the T16 OTTD very hard to achieve.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Aug 04, 2020 - 13:52 Reply with quote Back to top

If you don't grind vs MA 10, he can still score in 2 or more turns left (maybe with fewer risks).

Feel free to kick first vs my Skaven any match, I like it. Smile

With new PO, it's hard to slaughter a 14 rat roster, especially with my deep stalling tactic.
Is your gameplay as good as your theorycrafting?
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