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Christer



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Feb 27, 2007 - 01:56
FUMBBL Staff
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I'm creating another new thread on this topic, because I feel that this post needs to be visible.

I've read through more than 20 pages of comments, and more than 100 comments to the newspost, and feel it's time to summarize some things here.

Even with the insane number of posts over this short period of time, there has in my opinion been two valid concerns about this option:

1. Real Life emergencies.
Call it bathroom breaks, kids needing attention, or cats on fire. Everyone knows what this is about. Sometimes real life demands attention, and BB comes second.

2. In-game chatting
A lot of people enjoy being able to talk with their opponents, without fear of it interfering too harshly on your game.


These two concerns are something I think needs to be solved and I am currently in contact with SkiJunkie to find a way to solve these issues.

I have basically spent every moment of my free time since friday on this matter, testing, implementing, listening to the insane amount of voices about it. It appears that some of you have misinterpreted that as me not caring, which is far from the truth... Funny to see so many people post "I didn't read it all through, but...", knowing that you don't have that luxury. Smile

Either way, the purpose of this post was to say that I am very aware of the major concerns people have, and am actively working on a solution for these concerns. I personally think it's quite possible to come up with a working system that allows space for people having lives and being social. Even in competetive divisions such as Ranked.
nonchalance



Joined: Dec 20, 2005

Post   Posted: Feb 27, 2007 - 02:16 Reply with quote Back to top

Good post, Christer, and I'm sure everyone appreciates your concern.

Christer wrote:
I personally think it's quite possible to come up with a working system that allows space for people having lives and being social. Even in competetive divisions such as Ranked.


See, this is the thing that's got so many people irritated; we had that system. It was the whistle going at four minutes, but not an enforced restriction.

This just enforces my current situation; I'll keep playing all my games in SWL, and not bother attempting to run a Ranked team or two.
Furious_George



Joined: Aug 13, 2005

Post   Posted: Feb 27, 2007 - 02:18 Reply with quote Back to top

Personally im glad that you've heard all the arguments and not gotten involved in either sides tinfoil hattery Smile
Ill be interested to see what becomes of the solution Smile

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Gebannus



Joined: Apr 14, 2006

Post   Posted: Feb 27, 2007 - 02:22 Reply with quote Back to top

How about having the timer inactive for some arbitrary length of time (say 1 second, for example) after each keypress when the chat textbox has focus?

The real life issue could be solved by having a pause button (possibly that both players need to click to activate the pause).
Another idea would be to have a limited number of pauses available to each coach (say, 2 per game).




nonchalance wrote:

See, this is the thing that's got so many people irritated; we had that system. It was the whistle going at four minutes, but not an enforced restriction.

Alot of people simply turned the whistle off.

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Fool



Joined: Sep 16, 2004

Post   Posted: Feb 27, 2007 - 02:23 Reply with quote Back to top

Christer, never perceived you as uncaring... quite the opposite actuallly. FUMBBL has been a lot of fun for me over the years and I appreciate all the hardwork that you, the other admins, and Skijunkie have done to make it possuble.
Gebannus



Joined: Apr 14, 2006

Post   Posted: Feb 27, 2007 - 02:27 Reply with quote Back to top

... or we could have the timer do nothing when you hit 4 minutes unless your opponent repeatedly hits a "Call illegal procedure" button while dancing around his desk. Very Happy

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nonchalance



Joined: Dec 20, 2005

Post   Posted: Feb 27, 2007 - 02:30 Reply with quote Back to top

Gebannus wrote:
How about having the timer inactive for some arbitrary length of time (say 1 second, for example) after each keypress when the chat textbox has focus?


Easily abused by the slow powergamers, doesn't solve major issues. If you're at the computer spending ages working out your next turn, it's not much effort to hold a button down at the same time.

I didn't know you could turn the whistle off (although obviously you can mute the sound); but the point remains that the old system worked, and the rule change was, IMO, entirely unnecessary.
nonchalance



Joined: Dec 20, 2005

Post   Posted: Feb 27, 2007 - 02:31 Reply with quote Back to top

Gebannus wrote:
... or we could have the timer do nothing when you hit 4 minutes unless your opponent repeatedly hits a "Call illegal procedure" button while dancing around his desk. Very Happy


This one I like. A lot.
Gebannus



Joined: Apr 14, 2006

Post   Posted: Feb 27, 2007 - 02:34 Reply with quote Back to top

nonchalance wrote:
Gebannus wrote:
How about having the timer inactive for some arbitrary length of time (say 1 second, for example) after each keypress when the chat textbox has focus?


Easily abused by the slow powergamers, doesn't solve major issues. If you're at the computer spending ages working out your next turn, it's not much effort to hold a button down at the same time.

I didn't know you could turn the whistle off (although obviously you can mute the sound); but the point remains that the old system worked, and the rule change was, IMO, entirely unnecessary.


True... but after a while nobody would play those people.

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phubar



Joined: Jan 17, 2007

Post   Posted: Feb 27, 2007 - 02:41 Reply with quote Back to top

So, just to be clear:

The turn limit is still in effect while you are working on those two issues?

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Azurus



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Feb 27, 2007 - 02:51 Reply with quote Back to top

Gebannus wrote:
The real life issue could be solved by having a pause button (possibly that both players need to click to activate the pause).
Another idea would be to have a limited number of pauses available to each coach (say, 2 per game).


This was my first thought too.

Maybe have 2 pauses which last up to 15 minutes each?

Any emergency which takes longer than that is likely of the "This is important, I won't be finishing that game today anyway" variety.

There definitely has to be some option though.

One question, is the 4min limit enforced at halftime too? Need to know before I play a game with it, I like to take a few minutes out at halftime to make a coffee.

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pac



Joined: Oct 03, 2005

Post   Posted: Feb 27, 2007 - 03:43 Reply with quote Back to top

Christer wrote:
It appears that some of you have misinterpreted that as me not caring, which is far from the truth...

Perhaps I think too kindly of people, but I don't think that it's true that many people hold a poor opinion of you, Christer. I think that this change might have been resolved in a better way, but I don't think many coaches truly doubt your positive goals for this site.

I still think that a necessary corollary to this change is an improved promotion of Unranked, but I don't doubt that you have plans in mind in this respect (or perhaps quite another, but still along similar lines). Storms like this blow up ahead of all of us and are gone just as swiftly.

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Whitesun



Joined: Jul 25, 2006

Post   Posted: Feb 27, 2007 - 03:52 Reply with quote Back to top

Christer, apart from being as LRB compliant as possible, is there any other over riding concern you have to be inclined to introduce the turn time limit? I suspect if the general playing public is made privy to your concerns, it is more likely we can collectively find an agreeable resolution. As it stands, the general feeling for some is that the turn time limit doesn't really address any pressing problems, and potentially creates a more hostile playing environment.

I believe almost everyone is in support of the turn time limit for tournies, especially the major ones, but apart from that, I can't see how the turn time limit benefits the community as a whole. Comments?
Quod



Joined: May 03, 2004

Post   Posted: Feb 27, 2007 - 04:26 Reply with quote Back to top

Gebannus wrote:
... or we could have the timer do nothing when you hit 4 minutes unless your opponent repeatedly hits a "Call illegal procedure" button while dancing around his desk. Very Happy


I like this one ALOT as well.

Some people would always hit the Illegal Procedure, but i'd think 90% of the crowd playing fumbbl would let it go, asl long as the slow opponent has given a reason for their afk.

It would also make tournament play faster imo, knowing that your opponent WILL call the IP if you take too long, unless you have a damn good reason.


That aside, go go Christer (and SkiJunkie) for all your tireless work on behalf of this community.

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ChrisB



Joined: Nov 28, 2003

Post   Posted: Feb 27, 2007 - 04:36 Reply with quote Back to top

If you can resolve those possible issues then I think the time limit is an excellent addition.


Last edited by ChrisB on Feb 27, 2007 - 04:59; edited 1 time in total
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