clarkin
Joined: Oct 15, 2007
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 Posted:
Feb 23, 2012 - 16:08 |
 
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Just wanted to float an alternative idea here. The thing we are trying to do is reward staying up so people play to win even if they aren't going to win their division. The horror of having to cut useful players etc if you got demoted was a perfect incentive in LRB4. However, I'm not sure it's going to be that useful in LRB6. Just look at the premier division right now - 5 of the 10 teams have TV 150-170, and only 3 teams are over TV200. In LRB6 having a lean TV is a perfectly valid way to get results - unlike LRB4 where the higher TR almost always had an advantage. High TR was a good aim for a team trying to win the WIL prem, but I don't believe high TV is. Hence, cutting TV won't be much of a punishment for demotion.
Instead I would like to suggest reroll limits. Numbers can be tweaked but imagine this:
Regionals: 1 reroll
Conferences: 3 rerolls
Premiership: no limit
So getting demoted is annoying and expensive (when you get promoted you'll need to re-buy rerolls to be competitive). Low rerolls also works quite well for fluff reasons (less training facilities!)
Thoughts? |
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Calthor
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
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Feb 23, 2012 - 16:11 |
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That's dreadful. That would make Regional games too random. And imagine playing Vampires in the regionals... |
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blader4411
Joined: Oct 18, 2009
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Feb 23, 2012 - 16:56 |
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That's a nice way to ruin the league 
Some teams rely on having more RRs to offset a lack of starting skills (or high AG). Limiting the number of RRs will create a massive strength gap between races.
-Blader |
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Mateuszzzzzz
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
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Mar 13, 2012 - 10:25 |
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So any news about caps or lack of them for season XXIV? |
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Cyrus-Havoc
Joined: Sep 15, 2006
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Jun 16, 2012 - 16:11 |
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I would like to propose a rule change on how ties on final league positions are broken.
What I propose is that head to head is used if there are only 2 teams involved.
Now you say what difference is that going to make?
The reason is there is a possibility of a three-way tie at the top of the Unicorn conference this season. This comes about with either a draw or a defeat for Gritter in the last game.
In this situation H to H complicates the matter because only one of the 3 coaches concerned won a game against the others.
In this situation straight TD difference would make things much easier to determine.
Remember the positioning of all three teams is important because of promotion & playoff.
This is a complex situation I suggest anyone interested go have a look at the table first.
Lets hope Gritter wins to save the problem this time! |
_________________
Not Undead but perhaps the oldest living coach! |
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Purplegoo
Joined: Mar 23, 2006
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Jun 16, 2012 - 17:00 |
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I'd imagine H2H only works / is used in a 2 way, or in a 3 way that's obvious. But I'm not 100%.
I've not done reports on my last four games, been busy. But I've had a wonderful season, really enjoyed myself. Khemri are a real challenge, and being a bit bashy is a pleasant change for me. 2nd on TD diff will do nicely. Onwards and upwards, and go on England this afternoon! |
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Overhamsteren
Joined: May 27, 2006
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Jun 17, 2012 - 19:13 |
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When looking at a head-to-head-to-head with 1 win and the rest draws you get:
Team A: 1 win, 1 draw
Team B: 2 draws
Team C: 1 draw, 1 loss
Seems ok that team A and B advances? |
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Like a Tiger Defying the Laws of Gravity
Thanks to the BBRC for all the great work you did. |
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PeteW
Joined: Aug 05, 2005
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Jun 17, 2012 - 19:27 |
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| Overhamsteren wrote: | When looking at a head-to-head-to-head with 1 win and the rest draws you get:
Team A: 1 win, 1 draw
Team B: 2 draws
Team C: 1 draw, 1 loss
Seems ok that team A and B advances? |
This is correct.
If Gritter wins, then he wins with JigerJones second.
If Gritter draws, then he will win the conf, with Jiiim second.
If Bo-brum wins, then Bo-brum wins with JigerJones second.
Exciting game! |
_________________
"Jesus loves me this I know, 'cos my Bible tells me so." MrMojo - where did you go? |
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Purplegoo
Joined: Mar 23, 2006
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Jun 17, 2012 - 20:01 |
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Yar; advertise that one!
Also, I'd love a friendly against a non bash team, but I realise pigs might fly.  |
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Prez
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jun 17, 2012 - 21:29 |
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Hmmm seems our debate has moved to the forums!
If Grit wins then its easy scenario. Takes top spot and JJ second
If its a draw then Grit still goes top, BUT JJ will get second spot. Their(JJ & Jiiiim) H2H was a draw and JJ has the better TDD, thereby pushes Jiiim into 3rd place.
If Brum wins, and he needs to win by a country mile to improve his TDD. As he beat Jiiiim but only drew with JJ and JJ has the better TDD. Hence Brum needs a stack of TD's to help his shot at top spot. If its a moderate win then he'll get 2nd spot.
In my humble opinion H2H rule is dire in these circumstances, its better suited to be used when two (or many coaches for that matter) coaches can not be separated by TDD and TDF. The H2H rule has the potential to ruin a coach's chance of taking a title from the onset, if Game 1 is a Lost.
lol I hope thats clear as mud
Prez |
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Prez |
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Gritter
Joined: Jun 29, 2006
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Jun 17, 2012 - 22:02 |
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I agree H2H is more complicated in these circumstances- I guess though it has been chosen as the first way to split team as TD difference really does favour elven and skaven teams in particular rather than bashers. |
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PeteW
Joined: Aug 05, 2005
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Jun 17, 2012 - 22:41 |
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Hmmm. I'm rethinking my earlier post!!!
The question is, do we look at all three teams together, or consider them as distinct pairs.
Situation 1 - Grit and Brum draw
If we consider the three teams together, then Grit has 1/1/0, Jiiim has 0/2/0 and JigerJones has 0/1/1, which gives Grit 1st and Jiiim second.
But if we consider them as distinct pairs then Grit beat Jiger and so Grit would place above Jiger, but Grit and Jiiim drew, but Jiiiim would have the greater TD diff, so Jiiiim would place above Grit, AND since JigerJones has a better TD diff than Jiiiim, Jiger would place above Jiiiim. This leads to a silly rock-paper-scissors situation.
Or, we consider a mixture of both and give Grit the win due to the three way H2H results. Then, if we look at Jiger and Jiiim we place Jiger above Jiiim due to the greater TD diff.
My decision would be to choose the third option, and consider the teams together to decide the winner, then look at the remaining teas to decide the runner up. I will rewrite the rules to make it clearer what happens in the event of a Three (or more) way tie.
Situation 2 - Brum wins
Looking at the three teams together, Brum would be on 1/1/0, jiger on 0/2/0 and jiiim on 0/1/1, so Bo-brum would be promoted, with jigerjones 2nd as he beats jiiim on TD diff.
If we looked at them separately, Brum beat jiiim, but jiger would have a better TD diff than Brum (unless he wins by 4 or more) and Jiger has a better TD diff than Jiiim, which would most likely put Jiger first and Brum second.
Again, I would choose the former option.
Overall
I think that in deciding the overall winner of a group it is fairest to consider the tied teams together as a mini-group. The team that deserves to be promoted is the best of that subgroup. If anyone can think of a potential situation where that wouldn't be fair, please post it!
It is a shame that the conference had two inactive coaches, which gave them fewer games in which to discriminate their ability. I will be tightening up the league next season and making it "opt-in" to remain in the league. We have deadwood that needs culling, otherwise we risk tarnishing the professional reputation of the league. |
_________________
"Jesus loves me this I know, 'cos my Bible tells me so." MrMojo - where did you go? |
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Overhamsteren
Joined: May 27, 2006
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 Posted:
Jun 17, 2012 - 22:45 |
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Sounds good Pete! On both accounts. |
_________________
Like a Tiger Defying the Laws of Gravity
Thanks to the BBRC for all the great work you did. |
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Cyrus-Havoc
Joined: Sep 15, 2006
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Jun 18, 2012 - 13:04 |
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Devils Advocate
Assuming there is a draw
To take the rules literally & break by 1st criteria then by 2nd criteria Grit is above Jiger & equal to Jim in the first criteria but below Jim in the second which could mean:
1 Jim
2 Gritter
3 Jigger
Gritter must be above Jigger because he has the better H-to-H result so on that basis Jigger cannot be 1st. If you then split by TD difference Jim’s score is higher than Gritter’s which puts him first. However if you then go back to H-to-H to separate Jigger & Jim you end up with Jigger top.
So Jim must be above Gritter
Gritter must be above Jigger
& Jigger must be above Jim
A complete unbreakable circle!
If it were any two of them you would get:
1 Gritter 2 Jigger on H to H
1 Jim 2 Gritter on TD difference
1 Jigger 2 Jim on TD difference
So they would all still be equal with one first & one second each.
If you take H to H out of the reckoning it becomes easy:
1 Jigger
2 Jim
3 Gritter
The fact is you can make a case for any one of them to be in any of the three possible positions.
I don’t believe the rules ever envisioned a three-way tie so I don’t think there is a fair way of ranking them.
This is why I think there needs to be a clarification of the rules for future seasons.
The best answer is still Grit winning the last game.
(The forfeit scores would balance out since all three get the 2-0 score line) |
_________________
Not Undead but perhaps the oldest living coach! |
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PeteW
Joined: Aug 05, 2005
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Jun 19, 2012 - 20:29 |
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Thx Cyrus. I already considered that possibility in a previous post, made a decision as to what would happen, and also stated that I would update the rules for future seasons!!!!  |
_________________
"Jesus loves me this I know, 'cos my Bible tells me so." MrMojo - where did you go? |
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