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Purplegoo



Joined: Mar 23, 2006

Post   Posted: Jun 24, 2012 - 23:40 Reply with quote Back to top

As per Pete's PM, cap or no cap discussion here, please.

I think I'm solidly on record, so I'll shut up!
Overhamsteren



Joined: May 27, 2006

Post   Posted: Jun 25, 2012 - 00:13 Reply with quote Back to top

Playing a rookie team against a 1500k TV team is really hard but I doubt caps would ever get lower than 1500k so they wouldn't help with that.

When you get a bit of a team then inducements start working really well so I think I am in the 'no caps' camp.

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Timlagor



Joined: Feb 13, 2009

Post   Posted: Jun 25, 2012 - 03:45 Reply with quote Back to top

Speaking as someone who regularly loses to 'weaker' teams I'm definitely in the No Caps camp.
Inducements work so much better than handicaps did and Stars are FUN.

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Calthor



Joined: Jan 24, 2006

Post   Posted: Jun 25, 2012 - 09:19 Reply with quote Back to top

Caps of about 1750 in the Regionals only, or no caps at all, as far as I'm concerned.
JigerJones



Joined: Oct 23, 2004

Post   Posted: Jun 25, 2012 - 09:57 Reply with quote Back to top

I'm also in the no caps camp.
DaCoach



Joined: Jul 22, 2004

Post   Posted: Jun 25, 2012 - 10:02 Reply with quote Back to top

As per last season's discussion I am still supporting caps around the lines suggested by Pgoo and Ehlers earlier, for example no cap/1750/1500 + no. of players rule.


Last edited by DaCoach on Jun 26, 2012 - 12:47; edited 1 time in total
GAZZATROT



Joined: Apr 26, 2009

Post   Posted: Jun 25, 2012 - 10:49 Reply with quote Back to top

No Caps. Lower case all the way. Bwahahahahaha (ahem)

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Dalfort



Joined: Jun 23, 2008

Post   Posted: Jun 25, 2012 - 11:30 Reply with quote Back to top

GAZZATROT wrote:
No Caps. Lower case all the way. Bwahahahahaha (ahem)



Winner! +1 for lower case ...

Still smiling. Smile
Ehlers



Joined: Jun 26, 2006

Post   Posted: Jun 25, 2012 - 12:43 Reply with quote Back to top

Caps and random seeding:
Caps:
I still think that some sort of caps in place.

But if caps did vanish, not like I am going to quite or being unhappy about it.

Something that I will just adjust to depending on if there or not.

But I could understand why it might turn some rookie teams away if landed in a very competitive regional league.

---
Random Seeding:
Will there be random seeding or you stay in your league? While it do spice it a bit up for whom you can meet, it also means that grudges become meaningless. I enjoyed being in the Lion Conf where I had some rivalry and grudges against last season teams. I enjoyed meeting them again and take my revenge. With the random seeding I got seeded into another conf. It to me made it easier to get to PREM, but I now only had one aim (PREM) instead of two (PREM & Beat the crap out of the others and get my revenge).
Mateuszzzzzz



Joined: Feb 26, 2006

Post   Posted: Jun 26, 2012 - 12:45 Reply with quote Back to top

175 tw/no cap/no cap
Wotfudboy



Joined: Feb 17, 2004

Post   Posted: Jun 26, 2012 - 14:43 Reply with quote Back to top

I'll go with the herd's decision. Confused
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PeteW



Joined: Aug 05, 2005

Post   Posted: Jun 26, 2012 - 20:32 Reply with quote Back to top

I quite like the idea of 175/no cap/no cap. I think the only point is to prevent new teams getting swamped. BUT, when I had a new team, getting 700k inducements was ace. 2 top stars and a wiz often allowed me to win those games.

Ehlers - we will always have random seeding. The real rivalries build up over many seasons. Very Happy

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Purplegoo



Joined: Mar 23, 2006

Post   Posted: Jul 03, 2012 - 14:06 Reply with quote Back to top

I know I’m fighting a losing battle on this. I also appreciate I’ve had my say. A lot. But I’m going to make one more impassioned plea anyway. Because I’m a sucker.

LRB6 has made it ever easier for much lesser teams to compete with much bigger boys in one off games. On the face of it, that’s a great thing. But I don’t believe, in a league on FUMBBL, giving into that this is necessarily positive. One of the things that has kept me interested in championing the division over the years is the arc of a team, and how you don’t get that in ‘normal’ play. Teams in leagues (if you’re the sort of coach that buys into the schtick and keeps his teams through thick and thin, going up, going down and through generations of players) go through periods of boom and bust, and it’s all about building to a boom, and the team performing there, and managing busts. Dwarves, for instance, have a very low, but long boom. Woodies quick but high. Team development and management are the key, and these are skills that are less important / non-existent in divisions where you’re always playing teams of the same TV; be that naturally or through artificial Inducement help.

Less subtle than that; having Morg and a Wizard every game and competing via gimmicks is not fun multiple times a season. Getting you mens smashed by a huge team when you’re rookies is no fun even if you jam a win with 800k of Inducements. You have your win, but your team has not progressed due to the Stars running off with all the spp. Having a system where there is no punishment for relegation (if I lose 20 running but have a uber team out the other end, I’ve lost nothing but a bit of time _and_ now I get to smash up rookies!) is not good. Punishing the new, brave, Goblin coach with TV 2000 Chaos is not good. There are any number of undesirable scenarios that the removal of caps could lead us to. ‘Yeah, but Inducements mean I might win now!’ is not the be all and end all of the point. Winning the game infront of you is not as important, in a league, as the journey you’ve taken over a season and where on that arc you are. A rookie WE team going 7/0/0 in a capless division thanks to an army of help but still being at TV 1000 with a smashed up look is not doing as well as the rookie WE team that went 2/3/2 and played more even games, ended up at TV 1400 and had skills on 7 players, ready for a push.

The more organic and close we can make teams and games, the better. Removing caps pushes us further down the free for all grey mass route that LRB6 (for very good real world reasons) promotes. Whilst the sky wouldn’t fall in if it happened; I do believe that letting Inducements prop up the system because they help in one off games is really short sighted.

The concern of coaches having to do major surgery on their teams isn’t lost on me. I just think it’s the lesser of the evils we have to look at here.

/Last try, promise. Razz
JockMcRowdy



Joined: Jul 07, 2004

Post   Posted: Jul 03, 2012 - 18:20 Reply with quote Back to top

I agree to a certain exent mr goo, I would prefer to have no caps but do see the need for them, the goblin team being a perfect example.

I also like the difference the WIL has over R or B in that you need to build up momentum and a solid team, MIN/MAX isnt going to win you the title.

I would like some more input before we decide on next seasons caps please.

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gjopie



Joined: Oct 27, 2009

Post   Posted: Jul 03, 2012 - 18:31 Reply with quote Back to top

I threw my opinion in last time this was discussed, but basically I agree with Pgoo's very eloquent defence of caps.

And I think my team could be a case study for this. We've been bloated for a couple of seasons really, ever since coming down from the prem. And thats not a coincidence. I wasn't really forced to make any painful decisions when we were relegated, so I didn't (although maybe I should have done anyway). We've failed to get promoted for three seasons now (although we were in the playoffs this time), and yet our TV is still higher than all but one of the teams in the premier division.

So I think we need official caps, and our current caps aren't strict enough. Because certain teams (well, almost all teams really) can get by with 12 players for at least the first game of the season.

But, at the end of the day, I don't want to have no-one to play with because everyone else hates the idea of caps.

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