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RedFish



Joined: Dec 04, 2004

Post   Posted: Jun 19, 2007 - 15:00 Reply with quote Back to top

Laviak wrote:
So, I was about to update the halfling setup page, as ogres are no longer permitted on halfling teams ... but then I realised that they *are* permitted in Stunty Leeg.

Both really need to be covered. The could be put as separate sections on the same page, but what I'm thinking it that it's better to split it into two separate pages (linked of course). What do you guys reckon is better?


That's already taken care of as someone had the foresight to split up the strategy section into stunty and non-stunty - with a section for halfling tactics in both.

As for my success in advocating against saurus scoring... markeing has been working on a new campaign entitled "Saurus scoring - the new T16 foul" so I'd watch the progress on that one.
JockMcRowdy



Joined: Jul 07, 2004

Post   Posted: Jun 19, 2007 - 15:24 Reply with quote Back to top

added my preferred HE setup (9), will get some more on shortly Smile

and DE

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nin



Joined: May 27, 2005

Post   Posted: Jun 19, 2007 - 18:04 Reply with quote Back to top

I wrote that the idea was good, then I've been thinking (ouch, I sould be studying more, this is exams here... you foul people, making me think)

Ading new starting roster options and changing or erasing obsolete ones without some order... I would preffer some tiding up

So I've come with this:
Posting polls
Title: Starting roster for (race)
Question: Wich one of these would be your starting roster for (race)?
Options 1-k : the allready given starting rosters
Option k+1 : Another one (please write it in this thread)

head post body:
Explanation: "this is to set some order for the wiki help"
"only obsolete rosters, if any, will be actually erased, it's just a question of tiding up and ease of use"
"the X most voted rosters will get to the top of the wiki page and a link to this poll will be added"
Disclaimer: "more used doesn't really mean better, it's just a statistical measure for fiability... more voted rosters will probably be good enougth"
"the X most voted rosters may still be not good enougth (statistically) so a minimun %Y and amount of votes #Z will be necesary for the rosters to enter the list at the top of the wiki page"
"if the thread shows that there is any important option missing, it will be added to the wiki page with a note, or else a new poll will start"
"thanks to all"

X depends on the race
%Y on X
#Z ...it can't depend on the number of votes, so it will depend on just X and %Y or may be not used

as I heve not much time atm, I won't start this if there is not much interest (pac, the original poster there, what do you think?)
if thing go running, I'd try to start tinkering with the wiki a couple of weeks (10 days may be) after setting the polls

any ideas or suggestions?
Plorg



Joined: May 08, 2005

Post   Posted: Jun 19, 2007 - 18:10 Reply with quote Back to top

nin wrote:
So I've come with this:

With that method, whoever makes the poll posts is implicitly the one
who will have to go write up pages for twenty rosters or so.
Lots of work on one person.

With the current thread method, whoever has an opinion on the rosters
can go write up the wiki page for their preferred roster themselves.
Lots of work divided among several people.
SillySod



Joined: Oct 10, 2006

Post   Posted: Jun 19, 2007 - 22:43 Reply with quote Back to top

Plus everyone is likely to vote in the poll (who is interested in updating the user guide). This will skew the poll results towards the majority group thinking. This is good if enough coaches vote but bad because it risks reducing the number of tactics advocated in the user guide.

For example, as a vamp coach I read the vamp tactics, pro elf tactics, and chaos tactics (with vampires specifically in mind). If these are written or decisions are made on them by the same coach it reduces the variety of suggestions. (or I'll have to dig through alot more stuff)

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nin



Joined: May 27, 2005

Post   Posted: Jun 20, 2007 - 02:59 Reply with quote Back to top

Plorg: whoever makes one of the polls is implicitly the one who will have to go write up the head of the wiki page for that race, more than one can go and do that (and it can be done in spare time, noneed to haste, actualization of the options was more relevant)... and yes, the contributions of many people are what make the wiki so good, but a bit of order would make it more handy (think about the n00b that just wants to make a ranked orc team and suddendly finds 10+ options in the help... some of them quite hard to start with)

SillySod: there are races with many roster options allready in the page... and I can decide wich ones seem to fit me better, but may be a n00b has some problems, "wich is the more comon starting roster for Norses?" may help him, and seeing it at the top of the page may be handy.
and I have thougth about your fears, that's the reason not to delete unpopular rosters (they'll be there, just not in the first lines)... there is also the minimun % and votes I mentioned, those are statistical safeties, so if there is only a roster in general use (getting many votes inthe poll), this one will be at the head of the wiki page (being the most popular) But if nobody seems interested (few votes) or there is no particular preference (widespread votes, low %) the wiki will remain as it's now.

more questions?
well, my idea doesn't seem quite appealing, it just addresed to the part of Pac's post that hinted a posible standard format for this section of the wiki.
I can do some of this work, but I won't start it just now if there are many doubts

(but I would like to keep this thread alive, I like the wiki Smile )
G-Monkey



Joined: Jun 20, 2005

Post   Posted: Jun 20, 2007 - 12:29 Reply with quote Back to top

Instead of putting it to a public vote why not do something similar to the skills analysis.
Take the top x ranking teams for each race (say top 20), and gather their starting roster and put the most popular one/s down.
AndyBurns



Joined: Mar 11, 2007

Post   Posted: Jun 20, 2007 - 12:33 Reply with quote Back to top

Good idea, provided the objective is long-term development. The roster you'd pick for a small number of games could be quite different...
G-Monkey



Joined: Jun 20, 2005

Post   Posted: Jun 20, 2007 - 14:27 Reply with quote Back to top

Sure. Currently the roster listings seem to assume long team development is the goal and any tournement rosters are labeled as such.
G-Monkey



Joined: Jun 20, 2005

Post   Posted: Jun 20, 2007 - 14:35 Reply with quote Back to top

On a tangent, what are the reasons for having rosters that aren't valid anymore.
Is it a case of people not having the time to remove them, or is it a case of not deleting other peoples work and just putting a note saying the info is now out of date.
pac



Joined: Oct 03, 2005

Post   Posted: Jun 20, 2007 - 14:47 Reply with quote Back to top

G-Monkey wrote:
On a tangent, what are the reasons for having rosters that aren't valid anymore.
Is it a case of people not having the time to remove them, or is it a case of not deleting other peoples work and just putting a note saying the info is now out of date.

They may as well be deleted, to be honest. The wiki keeps all (or a lot of) its old versions anyway, so nothing would actually be lost. It's just a question of someone actually doing it.

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Laviak



Joined: Jul 19, 2004

Post   Posted: Jun 20, 2007 - 14:49 Reply with quote Back to top

There are a couple of pages that have a ridiculous number of different lineups - if you're new, I don't think you really want too many to pick from - unless they are divided into 'common rosters', and 'other variations' so that it's easier to pick one.

Having a little bit of a blurb about each of them is a good idea too. If you're new, it's hard to know why you might pick one roster over another.

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nin



Joined: May 27, 2005

Post   Posted: Jun 20, 2007 - 15:49 Reply with quote Back to top

G-Monkey wrote:
Instead of putting it to a public vote why not do something similar to the skills analysis.
Take the top x ranking teams for each race (say top 20), and gather their starting roster and put the most popular one/s down.

that would be also a good idea, but there are some points to think about:
1. Relative long term succes doesn't mean that the initial roster was a good choice
example: what matters which was the initial roster of the Terrifying Anarchists of Naggaroth, they played some hundreds of games
2. Good coaches can make succesfull (very succesfull) initial rosters that are quite risky choices
3. The initial roster you used for your most beloved team doesn't need to be the choice you would have done after 100 matches
4. In the poll, the oppinion of coaches that preffer to play at low TR is also represented (hopefully)

Laviak wrote:
There are a couple of pages that have a ridiculous number of different lineups - if you're new, I don't think you really want too many to pick from - unless they are divided into 'common rosters', and 'other variations' so that it's easier to pick one.

Having a little bit of a blurb about each of them is a good idea too. If you're new, it's hard to know why you might pick one roster over another.

first paragraph: that was my point Very Happy
second: there the opinions from some "race expert coaches" would be quite handy

gathering some ilusion now
may be it's time to try and post the poll for one of the races to see what happens (if I manage to spare some time)
Woodstock



Joined: Dec 11, 2004

Post   Posted: Jun 21, 2007 - 10:01
FUMBBL Staff
Reply with quote Back to top

Laviak wrote:
There are a couple of pages that have a ridiculous number of different lineups - if you're new, I don't think you really want too many to pick from - unless they are divided into 'common rosters', and 'other variations' so that it's easier to pick one.

Having a little bit of a blurb about each of them is a good idea too. If you're new, it's hard to know why you might pick one roster over another.


Maybe an idea to split the line-ups in 2, starters and advanced... Just take the 3 best and balanced line-ups for newbies, and put the others for advanced use.. As I will never recommend a 0RR WE line-up to anyone Confused
MickeX



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Jun 21, 2007 - 10:36 Reply with quote Back to top

I've added some Vampire strategies and some arguments for a low starting FF.
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