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SillySod



Joined: Oct 10, 2006

Post   Posted: Aug 29, 2007 - 12:12 Reply with quote Back to top

spubba's team looks best for you

purplegoo's team looks best for an experienced player

don't have to have high FF in academy since team progression dosent last more than a few matches (either you have died, got the hang of the game, or decided you don't like DE's)

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Olaf_the_Stout



Joined: Aug 29, 2007

Post   Posted: Aug 30, 2007 - 02:12 Reply with quote Back to top

Well, after my first game last night, I have a few more thoughts on what might work for me.

Leaving out a Witch Elf is probably the way to go for now. Without Block she can be a bit risky due to her Frenzy. In my next team I'll probably go with 2 Blitzers. The Block skill just makes them a little more reliable when you want to punch a hole in the defensive line.

1 Reroll doesn't seem like enough for me. Maybe I just rolled horribly, but I definitely failed enough rolls to wish that I had a second reroll to spend.

I'm not sure about the Thrower. I like the fact that I can get most passes through with AG4 and a reroll but I don't know if it is needed. The 2 Fan Factor might bring in enough money so that I can buy a Thrower a few games in.

The Linemen can hold their own pretty well. Once they get a skill or 2 they will be much more than the linesmen of many other teams who's job it is to stand there and hit people (or get hit themselves).

Olaf the Stout
Wizard



Joined: Jul 09, 2004

Post   Posted: Aug 30, 2007 - 02:22 Reply with quote Back to top

Quote:
Olaf the Stout
The 2 Fan Factor might bring in enough money so that I can buy a Thrower a few games in.


FF2 will be lucky to get you a lino after 3 game.
Getting a little bit away from starting the team to tactics and a few games in, you might find that its a lot less of a risky play to have an elf lineman just scoop up the ball with agility 4 (2+) then handoff on the next turn instead of making a pass as thats only 1 roll rather than 2 risky rolls for a throw. The teams with less agility and seend will find thrower more handy than an elf team will.

Quote:
Olaf the Stout
Leaving out a Witch Elf is probably the way to go for now. Without Block she can be a bit risky due to her Frenzy. In my next team I'll probably go with 2 Blitzers. The Block skill just makes them a little more reliable when you want to punch a hole in the defensive line.


Once gain, lets think games into the future. Yes block is a wicked skill, but you will save so much more by getting re-rolls with the extra cash it takes to buy a blitzer. You should on average have at least 2 - 3 linemen pick up a skill after 2 games. Thats block. After 3 - 4 more games you have the cash for the blitzers, at least maybe 3 - 4 of your elfs already habve block, adding 2 more that makes 5 - 7 players with block by the 6th game.
Where if you take the other aproach, yes you have 2 block players for your first game, but i bet they hog all the xp and by game 6 - 7 you have 2 very cool Blitzers with Block/Dodge/Leap etc. that get fouled quickly leaving you lino's with no skills...

For this to work though, i would strongly suggest FF9. Lino's are easier to replace so you can take a death or 2 in your first matches, and its better to have a lot of them with skillz that can support your positionals that will be targets of the opponents bootings. ANd being a new starter you might find that you lose a little more often, and FF9 will help your team cope through those loses. Yoo dont want to lose your first game, have a death to deal with aswell as your FF dropping to 1.. thats team death.

Once again, this is for long term team play - so once you settle and find a good team in Academy maybe come back to this thread.

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Olaf_the_Stout



Joined: Aug 29, 2007

Post   Posted: Aug 30, 2007 - 03:56 Reply with quote Back to top

Wizard wrote:
Quote:
Olaf the Stout
The 2 Fan Factor might bring in enough money so that I can buy a Thrower a few games in.


FF2 will be lucky to get you a lino after 3 game.
Getting a little bit away from starting the team to tactics and a few games in, you might find that its a lot less of a risky play to have an elf lineman just scoop up the ball with agility 4 (2+) then handoff on the next turn instead of making a pass as thats only 1 roll rather than 2 risky rolls for a throw. The teams with less agility and seend will find thrower more handy than an elf team will.

Quote:
Olaf the Stout
Leaving out a Witch Elf is probably the way to go for now. Without Block she can be a bit risky due to her Frenzy. In my next team I'll probably go with 2 Blitzers. The Block skill just makes them a little more reliable when you want to punch a hole in the defensive line.


Once gain, lets think games into the future. Yes block is a wicked skill, but you will save so much more by getting re-rolls with the extra cash it takes to buy a blitzer. You should on average have at least 2 - 3 linemen pick up a skill after 2 games. Thats block. After 3 - 4 more games you have the cash for the blitzers, at least maybe 3 - 4 of your elfs already habve block, adding 2 more that makes 5 - 7 players with block by the 6th game.
Where if you take the other aproach, yes you have 2 block players for your first game, but i bet they hog all the xp and by game 6 - 7 you have 2 very cool Blitzers with Block/Dodge/Leap etc. that get fouled quickly leaving you lino's with no skills...

For this to work though, i would strongly suggest FF9. Lino's are easier to replace so you can take a death or 2 in your first matches, and its better to have a lot of them with skillz that can support your positionals that will be targets of the opponents bootings. ANd being a new starter you might find that you lose a little more often, and FF9 will help your team cope through those loses. Yoo dont want to lose your first game, have a death to deal with aswell as your FF dropping to 1.. thats team death.

Once again, this is for long term team play - so once you settle and find a good team in Academy maybe come back to this thread.


Whoops. What I meant to say was that if I went for a normal Lineman, instead of a Thrower, I could spend the extra 20k I save on 2 extra FF. The 2 extra FF might then generate an extra 20k in gate takings so that after a few games, I can but a Thrower instead of a normal Lineman. I hope that makes things a little clearer.

As for the Blitzer vs. Lineman debate, I also like the fact that Blitzers have MA 7, compared to MA 6 for the Lineman. If I want to use a fast running game I think that the extra movement will come in handy.

Of course, I could be completely off my rocker here. I'm sure most people here have played a lot more games than I have and know what does and doesn't work. Playing a few more Academy games should help me to sought out where I want to go when I start my next team.

Thoughts?

Olaf the Stout
Lill-Leif



Joined: Nov 17, 2005

Post   Posted: Aug 30, 2007 - 05:02 Reply with quote Back to top

If you want a fast running game, then dark elves might not be the right choice since they are considered pretty slow (for an elf team).
def909



Joined: Oct 25, 2005

Post   Posted: Aug 30, 2007 - 05:09 Reply with quote Back to top

My advice: Buuy 11 Linos, 3RR and 8 FF... pray that you don´t lose players in your first game and buy an apo. Generally, most races should not start with more than 11 players (Goblins, Halflings and the few races with 30k Linos are the exception). Always start with a high FF (at least 7) and as many RR as possible. You can always buy all the positionals later, but you need that high FF and RR as a solid foundation for your team. Cash is almost always needed and once you play a few games you will realize how much of a difference an additional RR can be...

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MickeX



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Aug 30, 2007 - 05:36 Reply with quote Back to top

Wizard wrote:

ANd being a new starter you might find that you lose a little more often, and FF9 will help your team cope through those loses.


That's a common misconseption. High starting FF increases the risk of your team getting so badly beaten you'll have to restart it. A FF1 RR3 8-player dark elf team is playable, where a FF9 RR1 8-player dark elf team will find it a lot more difficult to get into shape.

The FF investment takes more than 10 games to pay off compared to RRs. Before that the team is weaker, and may even lose players and money because of this in-game weakness.

A completely different advice: try a non-ogre human team or undead. I think you'll learn more, win more and have more fun. Elfs aren't a horrible choice, but their versatility is tricky to use efficiently, probably adding to your problem of finishing the turns on time.
pac



Joined: Oct 03, 2005

Post   Posted: Aug 30, 2007 - 05:47 Reply with quote Back to top

MickeX wrote:
Wizard wrote:

ANd being a new starter you might find that you lose a little more often, and FF9 will help your team cope through those loses.


That's a common misconseption. High starting FF increases the risk of your team getting so badly beaten you'll have to restart it.

No such thing as 'have to' when it comes to retirements. Smile
Olaf_the_Stout



Joined: Aug 29, 2007

Post   Posted: Aug 30, 2007 - 06:49 Reply with quote Back to top

Lill-Leif wrote:
If you want a fast running game, then dark elves might not be the right choice since they are considered pretty slow (for an elf team).


What sort of team are Dark Elves considered?

I'm not necessarily after a fast running team. I like that Dark Elves seem to be agile enough to work a passing game while at the same time, not totally sucking at the running or bash your way up the field game.

Olaf the Stout
nonchalance



Joined: Dec 20, 2005

Post   Posted: Aug 30, 2007 - 06:54 Reply with quote Back to top

Dark Elves are versatile. Not fast enough to outrun the fast teams, not strong enough to outbash the bashy teams; but they do well in that middle ground.
They can play that running game, but I think they're best at the long passing game. Just not quite as good at that as Wood or High Elves.
LordSnotball



Joined: Nov 05, 2004

Post   Posted: Aug 30, 2007 - 08:05 Reply with quote Back to top

all elves are tricky, and if you start off in ranked, you will be lucky if you win even 1 of your first 20 matches with elves...

the biggest mistake new players make is forgetting where they want their players to be the next turn... blocking and running around with the ball is all very well, but next turn will your players be in a good position to shield the ball carrier, score a TD and so on? a bit of foresight really improved ur game with all races, but with elves that extra bit more so...

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Babau



Joined: Aug 28, 2007

Post   Posted: Aug 30, 2007 - 08:16 Reply with quote Back to top

First post for me!!!! A big cheer to everyone!!!

You can see here my take on a starting campaign Dark Elf team.
This has been made after much cogitation about some advice from a couple experienced BB player I know.

These are the suggestions they gave me:

- 2 rerolls is the minimum start for an elf team (Bloodbowl is a game of chance with 6 sided dice - that means that a team that tries six or more dodges/ball pick ups is very likely to suffer a turnover since ones come out one time in six)

- an all-lineman team may be good for experienced players, but a n00b like me will benefit from the extra movement point of the blitzers

- the key player here is the thrower. The pass skill is invaluable since it does not use up a reroll and you may try and score with your linemen. Also the passing game is good against bashing teams (you don't want to stall against them)

- when the linemen skill up, choose dodge before block (if they roll a double, choose guard)

- buy an apothecary ASAP, then another blitzer, then go for another reroll

Here it is what I have come up with... Hope it will be of any use (and maybe I can get some more advice from you vets out there... *blushes*)

Very Happy
MickeX



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Aug 30, 2007 - 08:32 Reply with quote Back to top

pac wrote:
MickeX wrote:
High starting FF increases the risk of your team getting so badly beaten you'll have to restart it.

No such thing as 'have to' when it comes to retirements. Smile


That's true Razz And the matches where you find an equally beat up team to face can be lots of fun!
Idolen



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Aug 30, 2007 - 08:44 Reply with quote Back to top

LordSnotball wrote:
well, a warning here... if u havent played in a while, you will find playing with elves veeeery difficult indeed...

i put up the 1 blitzer, 1 WE, 1 thrower, 8 linemen build for DEs, so i'll explain the reasons why:

after 1 match, even if u take a serious casualty 1st match, you have enough winnings to buy an apothecary, and second game a new player or a second reroll... if you go with one of those 11-12 linemen builds, this is what happens to the average coach's team: http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team&op=view&team_id=318896

they look impressive till you notice that it is 1 blitzer, 1 WE, record: 1/1/9... you cant play with them...

this is what happens when you start with 1 blitzer, 10 linemen, fan factor 5, 2 rerolls: http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team&op=view&team_id=129762

you need to win games to increase that FF to make the winnings to replace players... this team only played well over 180, and by the time they started doing well too many niggles had accumulated, and the team was beyond my abilities to save. notice again that the FF was unrecoverable...

and, this is what happened with the WE, Blitzer, Thrower, 1 reroll build:
http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team&op=view&team_id=359658

they still have a losing record, but they have the ability to score, dodge on the WE turned out to be worth 3-4 rerolls in the game, and your opponent will always focus on taking down your positionals... with this build you will always have 1 positional left on the pitch who will be able to change the course of the game... also notice how the FF is 10 here. despite having a losing record, the TDs you are able to score with a blitzer/WE/Thrower combo means u can frequently score 2 tds in the game, giving u a fair chance at keeping the same FF...

and, the most important thing i learnt, 1st skill Dodge. block looks tempting, but you cant score as easily with block... minimum 2 dodges on a starting team's linemen...

so, i'd propose my 1 blitzer, 1 WE, 1 thrower build, 1 reroll <i>(only used for scoring, not for blocks, double skulls costs you a turnover, so what, the reroll to score will keep your FF in tact n will enable allow u to build faster)</i> and you buy an apothecary 1st match, a reroll 2nd-3rd match, replace a missing lineman if low income, or 2 blitzers consecutively. then buy 2 more rerolls, and by this time you will have 150 TR, 4 rerolls, 3 blitzers, 1 WE, 1 thrower, and preferably 13 players (yeah, some linemen will die/be retired). your initial positionals will all have gotten at least 1 skill, as will 2-3 linemen by now... and your DE team plays quite well...

all other builds seem to need TR180 before they play smoothly


Depends how your first matches turn out I would say......
I started this team with 11 linos and 3 rr and 8 ff and they're doing okay I would say....

http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team&op=view&team_id=299070

Same with this team in [R]

http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team&op=view&team_id=310497

I guess its all up to Nuffle, but I would go with the 11 lino startup and get 3 rr and 8 ff. That means you might wanna dodge a Mighty Blow starting roster as your first team tho. You really need to get 2 td's and 2 cas the fist couple of games to maximize your chanses to gain ff.

Good luck mate Smile

-Idolen

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Dogbarian



Joined: Jul 17, 2007

Post   Posted: Aug 31, 2007 - 21:44 Reply with quote Back to top

Well, I agreed with the advice that said start with an all lineman team, and have built my Darkwood Cowpunchers up from that into this. I played the first 3 games with no positional players at all. The good thing about that was skilling up the linemen, once you have positionals, they seem to gather a good chunk of the SPPs. I made some bad decisions on skills along the way, but you can get the idea of seeing my progression. Actually, Nuffle has smiled on the team somewhat, I've been lucky to avoid a lot of serious injuries, and have picked up some good increases.

Started with a FF of 8 and 3 rerolls, I've since purchased 2 more, and FF is now 10 (total change was down 2 and up 4 over their 16 games so far). Having that high fan factor does help in replacing your players.

After game 3, I bought the first blitzer, 2 games later, the second. I didn't buy my first witch until the 8th game, and have protected them fairly well, even leaving them in the dugout on occasion. I have yet to buy a thrower, but I have also keep the passing game to quick or short passes for the most part (and having a few AG5 folks has helped that).

Think of dark elves as using an option game (a US college football reference if that doesn't mean anything to you). Move the ball to scoring range like a running team, but be prepared to flip the ball to an open receiver for the final yardage when the opponent starts to collapse the cage around you. And be willing to be flexible - if the opponent shuts down one side of the field, reverse it to the other side.

You can go for the all-out passing game, but with less overall speed, it's tough. And you don't want to hang your witch elves out like you would catchers of other races. But you can pull off some spectacular plays.

And expect to lose a few games, particularly early. Smile
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