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Sigmar1



Joined: Aug 13, 2008

Post   Posted: Apr 07, 2016 - 19:29 Reply with quote Back to top

mister__joshua wrote:
In what way did it do badly?


Although maneuverability was an issue, the main problem with dodgeless Gnomes is how absurdly easy they were to knock over. At low TV vs. teams with virtually no block, players with dodge are really durable because they are only knocked down on a pow.

A prone MV4 player is virtually worthless. And despite having AV8, getting knocked over at double the rate of your opponent still leads to a lot of AV breaks with Stunty fragility.

Non-dodge non-stunty may be fine on it's own, but we've seen that +AV non-dodge stunty doesn't work at all. And I suspect that would be true with FA as well.

I suspect a non-stunty dodge lino would be OP unless the player was also AV6.

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Bakunin



Joined: May 08, 2011

Post   Posted: Apr 07, 2016 - 21:08 Reply with quote Back to top

Just go:

Qty Title Cost MA ST AG AV Skills & Traits Allowed Skills
0-1 Chaos Minotaur 120000 5 5 2 8 Always Hungry, Frenzy, Horns, Mighty Blow, Regeneration, Thick Skull, Throw Team-Mate, Wild Animal SM
0-2 Centigor 100000 6 3 2 8 Horns, Really Stupid, Sprint SM
0-4 Ungor 60000 6 2 3 7 Horns SM
0-16 Bray 40000 5 2 3 6 Dodge, Right Stuff, Stunty SM


But the brays seems way overpriced.. with Av6 and Mv5 they should only cost 30k. Okay they can take S&M skills, but cost the same as a normal goblin?

*remove loner from the mino!


Last edited by Bakunin on Mar 18, 2017 - 01:58; edited 1 time in total
Craftnburn



Joined: Jul 29, 2005

Post   Posted: Apr 08, 2016 - 05:03 Reply with quote Back to top

Bakunin wrote:
Just go:

Qty Title Cost MA ST AG AV Skills & Traits Allowed Skills
0-1 Chaos Minotaur 120000 5 5 2 8 Always Hungry, Frenzy, Horns, Loner, Mighty Blow, Regeneration, Thick Skull, Throw Team-Mate, Wild Animal SM
0-2 Centigor 100000 6 3 2 8 Horns, Really Stupid, Sprint SM
0-4 Ungor 60000 6 2 3 7 Horns SM
0-16 Bray 40000 5 2 3 6 Dodge, Right Stuff, Stunty SM


But the brays seems way overpriced.. with Av6 and Mv5 they should only cost 30k. Okay they can take S&M skills, but cost the same as a normal goblin?
Hey, I think I like that version... Wink

BTW, S&M access is worth something, that's why the increase in price over flings. (Besides WhatBall will probably change the price to be 38,976 anyway! Razz)
harvestmouse



Joined: May 13, 2007

Post   Posted: Apr 08, 2016 - 14:13 Reply with quote Back to top

Sigmar1 wrote:

Non-dodge non-stunty may be fine on it's own, but we've seen that +AV non-dodge stunty doesn't work at all. And I suspect that would be true with FA as well.


Would it though? Let's say you had a high AV (8 for stunty Leeg)/low AG dodge player. Would you dodge him out of tackle zones? Probably no.

So having FA is actually a tiny bit better in protecting than dodge on a player like this.

@The_Sage The difference between Chaos and Gnomes (without dodge) was that Chaos survived to get good. Where as the Gnomes were not.

It is a shame, and it was worth a try. I still feel something along those lines needs to be done, but......I don't know what. Maybe even more AV.....I dunno.

You know thinking about it maybe even they could be the Foul Appearance roster! GW Gnomes were the top illusionist mages. So FA could replicate hitting an illusion instead of a player. The problem with that is...........at high TV they'd be even more powerful than they are now. Gnomes like a few rosters are difficult to balance.
Bakunin



Joined: May 08, 2011

Post   Posted: Apr 08, 2016 - 19:28 Reply with quote Back to top

Craftnburn wrote:



BTW, S&M access is worth something, that's why the increase in price over flings. (Besides WhatBall will probably change the price to be 38,976 anyway! Razz)


35K is way better. Just get it done, it looks great Razz
Bakunin



Joined: May 08, 2011

Post   Posted: Apr 08, 2016 - 19:44 Reply with quote Back to top

Craftnburn wrote:


Hey, I think I like that version... Wink


What is the difference between your Mino and the halfling Spawn? Maybe remove Regen, so it makes sense that it only costs 120k
Craftnburn



Joined: Jul 29, 2005

Post   Posted: Apr 09, 2016 - 02:30 Reply with quote Back to top

Bakunin wrote:
What is the difference between your Mino and the halfling Spawn? Maybe remove Regen, so it makes sense that it only costs 120k
The difference is that when this roster was created, there was no halfling spawn, it was called a Chaos Minotaur! Wink The Fling Mino was later changed to a Spawn to "reserve" Minotaurs for a later roster (e.g. this one).
SirIndigo



Joined: Sep 10, 2015

Post   Posted: Apr 09, 2016 - 02:45 Reply with quote Back to top

Sigmar1 wrote:
mister__joshua wrote:
In what way did it do badly?


Although maneuverability was an issue, the main problem with dodgeless Gnomes is how absurdly easy they were to knock over. At low TV vs. teams with virtually no block, players with dodge are really durable because they are only knocked down on a pow.

A prone MV4 player is virtually worthless. And despite having AV8, getting knocked over at double the rate of your opponent still leads to a lot of AV breaks with Stunty fragility.

Non-dodge non-stunty may be fine on it's own, but we've seen that +AV non-dodge stunty doesn't work at all. And I suspect that would be true with FA as well.

I suspect a non-stunty dodge lino would be OP unless the player was also AV6.


AV 8 breaks 27.77%, AV 7 41.66% of the time. After armor break, gnomes (stunty with thick skull) will be KO'd only on a 7, 16.66%, but CAS on a 9+, 27.77%. So a knocked down Gnome is removed from the pitch 12.24%. A non-stunty after armor break is KO'd (8 or 9) 25%, CAS (10+) 16.66%. So AV7 non-stunty, gets knocked down, removed from play 17.36%.
harvestmouse



Joined: May 13, 2007

Post   Posted: Apr 09, 2016 - 02:48 Reply with quote Back to top

Craftnburn wrote:
Bakunin wrote:
What is the difference between your Mino and the halfling Spawn? Maybe remove Regen, so it makes sense that it only costs 120k
The difference is that when this roster was created, there was no halfling spawn, it was called a Chaos Minotaur! Wink The Fling Mino was later changed to a Spawn to "reserve" Minotaurs for a later roster (e.g. this one).


Yes, there would be a good chance that Spawn would be revised if the Mino made a come back. I think it's too mino-y at the moment. And it's on the powerful side of an over used roster.
Bakunin



Joined: May 08, 2011

Post   Posted: Apr 09, 2016 - 14:58 Reply with quote Back to top

harvestmouse wrote:


Yes, there would be a good chance that Spawn would be revised if the Mino made a come back. I think it's too mino-y at the moment. And it's on the powerful side of an over used roster.


Just remove the chaos halfling roster. Its a anti-fluff roster since halflings cannot/is immune to chaos mutantions. Cool
harvestmouse



Joined: May 13, 2007

Post   Posted: Apr 09, 2016 - 17:17 Reply with quote Back to top

Well it's popular and it's been around a long time. Generally I think it would be a negative move.

Personally..... The moot is next to sylvania, there must be some crossover there. I went with a thrall style theme for the icons for my league.
Craftnburn



Joined: Jul 29, 2005

Post   Posted: Apr 09, 2016 - 22:09 Reply with quote Back to top

I cannot envision a scenario where Chaos Flings are removed... they are an Iconic Stunty Leeg race. Sure their fluff is pretty sketchy, but so what... it's the Leeg! It's not meant to be taken too seriously!

I also agree that the spawn is too "mino-y". I'd love to see them implemented with random mutations instead of allowing skill choices! (They'd probably need a bump in power or drop in price to offset the lack of skill choice).

That said...

How about those Brays?! Wink


Last edited by Craftnburn on Apr 10, 2016 - 01:39; edited 1 time in total
mister__joshua



Joined: Jun 20, 2007

Post   Posted: Apr 09, 2016 - 22:16
FUMBBL Staff
Reply with quote Back to top

Craftnburn wrote:

That said...

How about those Brays?! Wink


Haha. That's why I thought I'd start a thread for just this sort of discussion!

I didn't know about the Halfling/mutation fluff. CFlings could lose M access and still be ace.

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harvestmouse



Joined: May 13, 2007

Post   Posted: Apr 10, 2016 - 02:08 Reply with quote Back to top

Halling fluff is an adaptation of LotR fluff ; where frodo was chosen to carry the ring due to hobbits natural resilience to corruption.

Halfling fluff is pretty clever. When chaos started to seep into the world, it had the ability to corrupt all the races. So they (the old ones) desperately tried to create a being that couldn't be corrupted. They succeeded but when the polar gates fell, it wasn't ready, it was still only in the form of a child.

The old ones were forced to flee and the Halfling was rushed released (typical in the gaming world) unfinished. Forever stuck in a childlike body.
Bakunin



Joined: May 08, 2011

Post   Posted: Jan 17, 2017 - 13:40 Reply with quote Back to top

Craftnburn wrote:

Bray Herd

Qty Title Cost MA ST AG AV Skills & Traits Allowed Skills
0-1 Chaos Minotaur 120000 5 5 2 8 Always Hungry, Frenzy, Horns, Loner, Mighty Blow, Regeneration, Thick Skull, Throw Team-Mate, Wild Animal SM
0-2 Centigor 100000 6 3 2 8 Horns, Really Stupid, Sprint SM
0-4 Ungor 60000 6 2 3 7 Horns SM
0-16 Bray 40000 5 2 3 6 Dodge, Right Stuff, Stunty SM

Re-roll counter: 60000 gold pieces each
Apothecary: Yes


Should the Chaos Mino have loner?
Dont have it here: https://fumbbl.com/help:Bray+Herd
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