Cederlund
Joined: Aug 25, 2003
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 Posted:
Oct 03, 2003 - 13:47 |
 
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the exact words from the lrb about strip ball are:
A player with this skill forces any opposing player that he pushes back to drop the ball in the square that they are pushed to, even if the opposing player is not knocked over.
so if i push someone, on your guy with the ball, your ballcarrier is pushed back, should strip ball work?
logically, no, but seeing as the PO rule is far beyond logic, why cant this be  |
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tgrozow
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Oct 03, 2003 - 14:55 |
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because it's not the guy with strip ball that pushed him. is you mentioned, is the guy with strip ball pushes someone back the skill kicks in, but players who are chain pushed are not directly pushed back by the blocker. |
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Mr-Klipp
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Oct 03, 2003 - 15:48 |
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Exactly, the second player is not pushed back by the blocker, he is pushed back by the blockee, as he, in turn, is pushed by the blocker. |
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Nagrud
Joined: Sep 29, 2003
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Oct 03, 2003 - 22:55 |
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So what if, very theoretically here, but still, if there is a chain push and the guy being pushed onto the ball carrier has strip ball (and isn't of the same team, obviously), is he then considered "pushing" the ball carrier, thus relieving him of the ball? |
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tgrozow
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Oct 03, 2003 - 23:33 |
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no because he is not actively blocking the guy. The person having strip ball has to get a result of a pushback on the block dice to use strip ball, a secondary push back does not get that dice roll, therefore he can't use strip ball. |
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Cederlund
Joined: Aug 25, 2003
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Oct 04, 2003 - 12:02 |
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logically yes, but it never says he is pushed by the pushed player, just says he is also pushed :p |
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Rimmer
Joined: Aug 19, 2003
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Oct 04, 2003 - 13:39 |
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Cederlund is right. As the skill stands in the LRB the player who is useing Strip Ball doesn't need to be active.
Compare it with Guard. |
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As always one is always 100% sure about the truth until one learns that it isn´t the truth. Then one is 100% sure that it isn´t the truth. |
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Mr-Klipp
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Oct 04, 2003 - 13:48 |
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No, he isn't.
Quote from the LRB, emphasis mine.
"Some skills refer to pushing a player back in order to work. These skills will work as long as you roll a push back on the Blocking dice."
The player who is being pushed into the player with the ball, even if he has strip ball, cannot use it because he did not roll a push back on the block dice, he was simply pushed into the person and pushed them back in turn.
This is the same reason that stand firm does not stop strip ball. A pushback result in the context of a skill description means a push back on the blocking dice, not any other kind of push back, and even if you don't actually get to push the model back. |
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Nagrud
Joined: Sep 29, 2003
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Oct 04, 2003 - 14:13 |
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Ok, I'm convinced. Thank you. |
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Rimmer
Joined: Aug 19, 2003
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Oct 04, 2003 - 21:05 |
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"Some skills refer to pushing a player back in order to work. These skills will work as long as you roll a push back on the Blocking dice."
But that would imply that Stand firm doesn´t work when someone is pushed into a player with the stand firm skill.
This might have been the case all along but I have never ever seen or heard someone useing that definition on stand firm. |
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As always one is always 100% sure about the truth until one learns that it isn´t the truth. Then one is 100% sure that it isn´t the truth. |
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Mr-Klipp
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Oct 05, 2003 - 01:01 |
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| Rimmer wrote: | "Some skills refer to pushing a player back in order to work. These skills will work as long as you roll a push back on the Blocking dice."
But that would imply that Stand firm doesn´t work when someone is pushed into a player with the stand firm skill.
This might have been the case all along but I have never ever seen or heard someone useing that definition on stand firm. |
Technically, not quite. The first line of stand firm is worded differently.
"A player with this skill is never pushed back as the result of a block."
Because of this wording, you could say that a secondary pushback into him was still the result of the first block, and therefore he does not move.
Or, you could argue that because of that wording, you should be able to push him back, because it is not from a block, it from another pushback.
Could be a little clearer to be honest. |
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Rimmer
Joined: Aug 19, 2003
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Oct 05, 2003 - 11:30 |
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Ok, I can handle that but if we are to look at the wording:
"Some skills refer to pushing a player back in order to work. These skills will work as long as you roll a push back on the Blocking dice."
This line does not exclude a chain pushback on a player with the ball to drop it due to a player with strip ball being pushed at him.
I´m not trying to get at you Mr-Klipp but if wording is the way you see it then your argument on the strip ball skill falls apart. I does not say anywhere that the player using the strip ball skill has to be the one rolling the block dice.
And as Cederlund says it is illogical but the rules doesn´t forbid it as they stand.
Of course this discussion is mostly due to different interpretations but still I can see why he is asking and I can´t see anything to contradict his idea (at least not yet). |
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As always one is always 100% sure about the truth until one learns that it isn´t the truth. Then one is 100% sure that it isn´t the truth. |
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SpookyKid
Joined: Aug 07, 2003
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Oct 08, 2003 - 23:04 |
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"A player with this skill forces any opposing player that he pushes back to drop the ball in the square that they are pushed to, even if the opposing player is not knocked over. "
so without real logic and reading directly from the LRB, if you have a player with strip ball and push someone back
that they drop the ball, even if they didn't have it. It says "ANY opposing player he pushes back" |
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