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Poll
Should Instructors be allowed to add comments to match reports in [A]cademy?
Yes
78%
 78%  [ 54 ]
No
21%
 21%  [ 15 ]
Total Votes : 69


Colin



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Feb 25, 2008 - 10:59 Reply with quote Back to top

A rookie just asked me to review a replay for him, which I happily did, and sent him a PM. Another option would be to post match report comments; this sort of idea has been mooted before, to allow spectators to have their say, but fear of flames kept it away.

However, it would prove informative in Academy. So what do you think?

Sorry, no Pie/Macavity/don't care option, please don't vote if you don't have an opinion.

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SeraphimRed



Joined: Feb 01, 2004

Post   Posted: Feb 25, 2008 - 11:21 Reply with quote Back to top

Would it not be better to write the report in a forum thread so that other coaches could view the game (replay) easily and see what instructors had to say?

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Chickenbrain



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Feb 25, 2008 - 11:23 Reply with quote Back to top

Actually it would be best to write the report in a forum thread including nice screenshots. Hell of an effort, but that would really help... Smile

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Colin



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Feb 25, 2008 - 11:33 Reply with quote Back to top

Chickenbrain wrote:
Actually it would be best to write the report in a forum thread including nice screenshots. Hell of an effort, but that would really help... Smile


The problem with this is the one-way accessibility; it only works in the forum>report direction, not vice-versa (without use of forum searching).

If use of the forum was the only way to do it, a few things would be advisable:

a) A link from the match report allowing creation/addition to a forum thread.
b) A separate sub-forum for match critiques.
(note: Both a and b could work for all divisions, not just Academy)
c) Match critiques would not appear in the latest three posts. They are of limited appeal, and therefore do not require such publicity.

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SeraphimRed



Joined: Feb 01, 2004

Post   Posted: Feb 25, 2008 - 11:38 Reply with quote Back to top

Thing is Colin, I think you should try and find ways of implementing everything you need using what is currently available rather than requesting/hoping for new features to be implemented.

If you want people to be able to easily edit a report for multiple people to comment, then use the wiki.


You could have Orc V XXXX etc... sections and group games which may ultimately form strategy guides for game play.

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bradipus



Joined: Nov 03, 2007

Post   Posted: Feb 25, 2008 - 11:38 Reply with quote Back to top

What about a Wiki? there is already the "Classic Replays" section on userguide..
Maybe another section with a title like: academy lessons.
Colin



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Feb 25, 2008 - 11:50 Reply with quote Back to top

bradipus wrote:
What about a Wiki? there is already the "Classic Replays" section on userguide..
Maybe another section with a title like: academy lessons.


This works well for distilling general best-practice strategies; however, posting new wiki pages for every match would not be practical - for one, it would make searching the wiki more difficult than it already is.

I don't envision most commentaries being anything like as detailed as the one I wrote - many instructors don't have the time. Just having somewhere convenient to jot a few lines is more what I had in mind.

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Optihut



Joined: Dec 16, 2004

Post   Posted: Feb 25, 2008 - 12:28 Reply with quote Back to top

I was about to vote yes, but after reading the discussion here, I agree that the wiki might be the better option.
Angie



Joined: Mar 06, 2004

Post   Posted: Feb 25, 2008 - 12:30 Reply with quote Back to top

Colin, you will NOT be given access to add / edit other peoples match reports. Use a wiki or the forum.

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BiggieB



Joined: Feb 19, 2005

Post   Posted: Feb 25, 2008 - 12:31 Reply with quote Back to top

as an instructor I think its not really an useful idea! pms or chat should be more then enough. The faq is filled with general tips


Last edited by BiggieB on Feb 25, 2008 - 14:55; edited 1 time in total
HolyG



Joined: Apr 13, 2004

Post   Posted: Feb 25, 2008 - 12:38 Reply with quote Back to top

Colin... for once i agree with someone, I can't think of any better place to find out where i went wrong in a game than the game report itself,

That said maybe it should be an additional link on the report page, however I feel some people feel that it is open to some abuse, but then again who is going to look at someone's game just to click on somebody else's comments / pointers..

The saddo's perhaps.
Colin



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Feb 25, 2008 - 14:32 Reply with quote Back to top

SeraphimRed wrote:
Thing is Colin, I think you should try and find ways of implementing everything you need using what is currently available rather than requesting/hoping for new features to be implemented.

I'm broadly in agreement - I was hoping this change would be relatively minor.

Angie wrote:
Colin, you will NOT be given access to add / edit other peoples match reports. Use a wiki or the forum.


I would never ask for the power to alter another's words.
I stress it was only a suggestion, and only for use in restricted circumstances (i.e. Academy).

I don't like the idea of cluttering up the wiki, therefore it seems the forum is the only recourse, or PMs for private correspondence.

If a person was to ask for critique on a match report, he could cross-link it with an Academy forum thread. I suppose that would have to do.

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Colin



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Feb 25, 2008 - 14:49 Reply with quote Back to top

Angie wrote:
Colin, you will NOT be given access to add / edit other peoples match reports. Use a wiki or the forum.


In the spirit of debate, exactly why? I'm presuming abuse potential, deciding who can/cannot have such access, and increased admin workload are the primary reasons? If it's something else, I'd like to hear it. Reasons why something cannot be are every bit as valid as why they can be.

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BadMrMojo



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Feb 25, 2008 - 19:50 Reply with quote Back to top

I can see the wisdom in maintaing the moratorium on additions/edits of match reports. I think that the admin load is particularly important. While I have no doubt that Colin's intentions and hypothetical use of match-reporting privileges would be beneficial, there's the matter of precedent. The administration can't be expected to be familiar with each and every individual user on the site and neither can they reasonably be expected to play favorites and grant special rights to those whom they do - with the possible exceptions of cases in which it is a clear decision to further distribute the workload and promote particularly trusted, valuable and active members to the administration itself, such as a new administrator of a particular division, not unlike how [S]tunty is handled. Just, you know, as an example.

I can respect that. It's slightly cumbersome in your recent push for a welcoming committee, Colin, but I think that it'll be pretty easy to work around the issue. I also agree that flooding the wiki is undesirable. For discussion of specific matches, the forums makes the most sense by far.

---

Assuming that we're primarily dealing with matches played between an incoming coach and one of the Faculty, we can have a more or less standard procedure for dealing with these things. Think of it as a rough guideline - entirely open to revision, by the way - of how to share the love.

1. After the match, the Factulty member who played the game should be adding a match report themselves, with any notes on the gameplay, particular areas for improvement and general words of encouragement and welcoming. This serves two main purposes:

a. It gives the new player a reference to look back on at a later date and note their improvement or lack thereof in specific area.

b. It sends a PM to the new coach alerting them that the match report has been updated.

2. If additional discussion and information is warranted or requested by the opponent, the Faculty member can open up a forum thread in the Academy category and update the match report with a link to the thread.

a. This allows spectators to join in the discussion and it has the bonus that it's linked both ways - the thread will start with a link to the match and the replay while the match report will include a link to the thread.

b. This won't be necessary in every instance. I can see how some people might not want their initial efforts in the league to be publicly highlighted, for example. I'd really only resort to this when specifically requested or there's a particularly pertinent point to be made.

3. In most cases, then, the primary discussion will be between the Faculty member who played the game and the new player. I don't see this as a particularly bad thing, since not all of us can keep up on every single replay and stay on top of things. There's something to be said for advice from the one who was, by definition, there and paying close attention.

a. Also, in theory, the new coach will probably be in #fumbblacademy. Any spectators can join in the discussion immediately, right in chat. While there won't necessarily be a permanent record to refer to, I think this is entirely acceptable.

b. Where desired, the playing Faculty member can also copy/paste chat transcripts from during/after the game into the match report or forum thread, for posterity's sake.

Should someone request advice from a non-faculty game, as in Colin's example, the Faculty member who gets the request could start the topic and alert the new coach with a PM including the link. From there, the new coach adds the link to the match report and we proceed from 2. above - with the similar result of linking the specific match to the forum thread and vice versa, also leaving a 'permanent' record for future reference.


ps. Now that I think of it, weren't links filtered out of match reports a while back? Puts a bit of a damper on things, but copying and pasting URLs really isn't all that tough.

pps. That actually gives me a totally random idea. The ability to add a link to a forum thread in a match report would be a nice addition. Specifically, each playing coach could have an additional field in the match report edit screen which accepts only an integer - the specific thread number. In the case of this thread, for example, one would put in 12978 and it would display on the match page as http://fumbbl.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=12978 .

Could be useful for tournaments as well, allowing players to mark league discussion threads on their matches. While not exactly user-friendly, it does remove most potential for abuse, since it could only link to onsite forum threads which are already being moderated - therefore causing no additional administrative load.

As I said, just a random thought.

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Astarael



Joined: Aug 14, 2005

Post   Posted: Feb 25, 2008 - 20:03 Reply with quote Back to top

Colin wrote:
Angie wrote:
Colin, you will NOT be given access to add / edit other peoples match reports. Use a wiki or the forum.


In the spirit of debate, exactly why? I'm presuming abuse potential, deciding who can/cannot have such access, and increased admin workload are the primary reasons? If it's something else, I'd like to hear it. Reasons why something cannot be are every bit as valid as why they can be.


Quoteth LotR "Only one Dark Lord, and (s)he does not share power"

Really though.. a seperate section in the match report for instructor tips wouldn't allow them to edit/add anything anyway. So that's a moot point.

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