Forteza
Joined: Oct 27, 2006
|
 Posted:
Oct 01, 2008 - 22:14 |
 
|
Its because of two things, first the tree is there to protect against fouling, 2 yes opponent use less players to block, but dont get as many blocks, with av7 you want your opponent to block as few times as possible |
|
|
pac
Joined: Oct 03, 2005
|
| Posted:
Oct 01, 2008 - 22:24 |
|
In addition, if you go narrow (LTL), and the opponent decides not to block the Tree, if he follows up the line-elf blocks, he ends up next to the Tree in your turn.
Spread wide and he can just ignore the Tree entirely if he wants, and then one 1 in your turn will end its involvement.
I generally set up narrow with all Line-elves too though. It's about minimising chain blocks and drawing him into a narrow area. |
|
|
vitas
Joined: Jul 31, 2008
|
| Posted:
Oct 02, 2008 - 00:05 |
|
Thanks to all.
I use often 2 linemen in the second line
....|..LTL..|....
....|.L...L.|....
I risk Quick Snap, but with treeman with guard some teams must do a 1 dice block or firdt block with guy
I like torsoboy scheme vs fouling team |
|
|
Kryten
Joined: Sep 02, 2003
|
| elf_gurl wrote: | A question or two...
Why put the Catchers in a position where they can get blitzed?
If you're playing a team with a lot of restricted mobility (Orcs, Dwarfs or Undead of various sorts) is it worth keeping most of your players back 5 squares from the LOS so your opponent can't use his strongest players to blitz you?
The answers are probably obvious, I'm just a newb... |
Actually, I play a style rather similar to that with my wood elves. My defense typically is setup like this
| Code: |
_________________
....|..LTL..|....
....|.......|....
....|L.L.W.L|....
....|.......|....
....|C.W.D.C|....
....|.......|....
T=Tree
L=Lino
W=Wardancer
C=Catcher
D=Dirty Player
|
There's considerable variance, depending on players available. I try to keep the dirty player safe if he's planning to foul (always, unless we're under the eye) - really that's because he's usually a single skilled vulnerable target. The front three are victims. The middle four are usually blodgy linos. The backrow holds the vaguely more precious players, wardancers, catchers, and the like.
This style is easy to reduce to 10 or 9 players, you just spread the players out a little. It might not be optimal, but even on a blitz result I still get well into their half and ready to press the ball. We're far enough back that it's inconvenient to get a good shot on the inside players, usually one of the middle linos is the blitz target. If they shoot for a farther back player, there are probably gaps to dodge through.
I dunno, it might not be optimal, but I've got great results from it. |
|
|
Grod
Joined: Sep 30, 2003
|
| Posted:
Oct 03, 2008 - 15:07 |
|
With a fast team like WE or Skaven, I like to have the majority of my fast team within 1 or 2 squares of the LOS. I spread my players out fairly thinly and include players in the side zones. The players furthest back are usually the weaker / faster players to give them some protection, but they are still close to the LOS to move quickly into the opponents half of the field.
_________________
....|..xxx..|....
..x.|x.....x|.x..
.x..|x.....x|..x.
....|.......|....
....|.......|....
....|.......|....
My feeling is with the speed, you can always cover any players that make a break through, plus you can go after the ball in the opponents half of the field and exploit any mistakes they make much more easily. If your opponent manages to get the ball safely into the middle of a cage, you can quickly redistribute your players in any case due to their extreme speed. When you have less than 11 players, it is especially critical to go after the ball, and not play too defensively. With your leaping players, you can pretty much go after the ball where ever it ends up being. The point is that your opponent can only blitz 1 player at a time, and you will never stop this from happening (short of waiting in the endzone), so why try? |
|
|
elf_gurl
Joined: Jul 29, 2008
|
| Posted:
Oct 03, 2008 - 20:27 |
|
| Quote: | | And besides that I like to force my opponent down the side as that makes it easier to contain them. When I have less than 11 players I take them away from the back rows first. |
Is there a risk that by leaving the flanks free you give a lot of space for the opponent to set up a strong position?
This sort of leads on to my next question.
I've set up my defence along one of the examples given here.
I've got a player or two downfield to blitz, or at least hassle, the ballcarrier. (Or alternatively, my blitzing player has fallen over with a double 1 on a dodge, leap or the block dice and my opponent has 2d blocks on all the linemen)
However, my opponent forms a decent cage and starts rolling forward.
How do I stop him scoring now? One way is to between controlling the pitch between the ball and the end-zone so he can only crawl forward. The other is to blitz into the cage, either to the ballcarrier directly or to get a TZ on the ballcarrier... Any advice on doing all of this effectively? |
|
|
Pro511
Joined: Aug 14, 2006
|
| Posted:
Oct 03, 2008 - 21:57 |
|
| zenbitz wrote: | I notice these are all
instead of
Is this because of the Tree? Otherwise (LLL vs. LxLxL) opp can get 3 2dB with 4 guys instead of 5. Or does this not really matter? |
We had a discussion about this a bit ago.
The conclusion was that:
Putting them together ties up less of your opponenet's guys but also makes it more difficult to knock down all 3 of your guys. Spreading them out means that you can get 3 or more blocks against each guy. Of course, there are chainpushes and other factors... |
_________________
Previously intelligent. |
|
Grod
Joined: Sep 30, 2003
|
| Posted:
Oct 03, 2008 - 22:06 |
|
You use your blitz to hit the ball carrier every turn. War dancers are very good at this. Develop several players for this technique, combining leap with strip ball, block, tackle,dauntless etc. When possible, use your other players to remove defensive assists, but dont be afraid to make a 2 dice, opponent chooses block. When your player has the block skill, the chance of your player going down is just 11/36 (without even using a reroll). With strip ball, your chance of getting the ball from a player with the block skill is 4/9 (without even using a reroll). And of course the odds are much better when you have 1dB block, but don't wait for one if it ain't coming.
Just make sure that you
a) leave yourself covered in case something does go wrong, and
b) have an additional 1 or 2 players who haven't yet moved, in a position to pinch the ball in case you are succesfull! |
_________________
I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.
Oscar Wilde |
|
torsoboy
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
|
| Posted:
Oct 04, 2008 - 11:39 |
|
| elf_gurl wrote: | | How do I stop him scoring now? One way is to between controlling the pitch between the ball and the end-zone so he can only crawl forward. The other is to blitz into the cage, either to the ballcarrier directly or to get a TZ on the ballcarrier... Any advice on doing all of this effectively? |
I assume this is vs. a bashy team.
Obviously, you will want to blitz the ball carrier. 2d is good, 1d is worth trying. If you have Strip Ball, -2d is also worth trying. Now, if they're caging you don't have a free shot at the ball carrier without leaping. What do you do then?
The next best thing is to restrict their movement. The pace of advance depends on their ball carrier going forward *and* the cage. Pin down either of these, to achieve your goal. Eventually, with a bit of misfortune on your opponent's part you will get to blitz the ball carrier. And that will rock. Yes.
A good player to mark the ball carrier with has at least Side Step, and preferably some of the movement restricting skills, like DT or Tackle. Your opponent absolutely cannot afford to fail a dodge with the ball carrier, so marking him with one is a good way to slow things down. Also, an SS player next to the ball carrier usually makes a blitz target for the opponent, allowing you to control their actions a bit.
I like to position my marks on the rear of the cage so that the cage "opens" if they followup. They probably won't followup, but even then you achieve slowing them down. The front of the cage is where I blitz to open a venue to the ball carrier. Not sure what argument I'd use here, but having assists at the front obviously presents a barrier to their advance.
Lastly, it is desirable to cut the rest of their team off from the cage by forming a screen with your own players. Since they only get one blitz, they either have to blitz your screen to regroup - allowing your time to break open the cage, or they have to deal with your players attacking the cage with less players.
edit: I forgot to mention, be wary of unmarked players next to the ball carrier. Even if the ball carrier is pinned down, the ball can still be handed off without penalty. |
_________________
The plural of anecdote isn't data. |
|
elf_gurl
Joined: Jul 29, 2008
|
| Posted:
Oct 04, 2008 - 11:49 |
|
Thanks for the hints!
| torsoboy wrote: |
I assume this is vs. a bashy team.
|
Yep. No elfbowling here.
Maybe I should develop some lineelves with Diving TAckle and/or Sidestep before they get block/dodge.
(After my Dirty Player, of course) |
|
|
torsoboy
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
|
| Posted:
Oct 04, 2008 - 12:11 |
|
| elf_gurl wrote: |
Maybe I should develop some lineelves with Diving TAckle and/or Sidestep before they get block/dodge.
(After my Dirty Player, of course) |
Well, that's a bit excessive I think. Having a good lineup of blodgers is still good, and even a player without SS to mark the ball carrier with is a good thing. After all, you can't slow down the other team a second time if all your elves are bashed off the field.  |
_________________
The plural of anecdote isn't data. |
|
Keothi
Joined: Jul 08, 2013
|
| Posted:
Mar 09, 2018 - 06:47 |
|
Although obvious for most, it's worthwhile mentioning that when you have blodge players and others with just block, if you're going to mark a cage, target Blodge to non tackle players. No point wasting that dodge skill when you're marking up. |
|
|
garyt1
Joined: Mar 12, 2011
|
| Posted:
Mar 09, 2018 - 07:23 |
|
Well, almost a 10 years necro  |
_________________
“A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer.” |
|
Kondor
Joined: Apr 04, 2008
|
| Posted:
Mar 09, 2018 - 17:10 |
|
| garyt1 wrote: | | Well, almost a 10 years necro |
Arise dead thread... ARISE!!! |
|
|
juck101
Joined: Nov 16, 2003
|
| Posted:
Mar 14, 2018 - 00:05 |
|
[quote="Grod"]With a fast team like WE or Skaven, I like to have the majority of my fast team within 1 or 2 squares of the LOS. ...
_________________
....|..xxx..|....
..x.|x.....x|.x..
.x..|x.....x|..x.
....|.......|....
....|.......|....
....|.......|....
I think this is a classic setup, pull everyone 2 back from los. So much joy with kick or a blitz I think its my only elf D with 10 or more players in any situation.
This is a good thread to be honest and I think I even remeber this post. |
Last edited by juck101 on %b %18, %2018 - %21:%Mar; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
|
| |
Conceding v Goblins/...
Search
