Quizard
Joined: May 31, 2008
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 Posted:
Nov 10, 2008 - 14:59 |
 
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Hi all bla bla,
Blackbox may finally be a way to play blood bowl on fumbbl without spending tons of time on finding a match and build your team without minding crazy peoples top metagaming criterias.
So im actually looking forward to this a lot.
I just quickly read the division rules and i think it would be beneficial to the balance aspect of things if freebooting (wizards, stars, freebooters) were possible right before the game as described in LRB4.
Since Black box does not allow either coach to chicken out of a game, i think a code of conduct (gentlemens agreement) to tell the opponent what freebooters will be purchased for the game should suffice. This means the same procedure as we know it from the boardgame, so BOTH coaches get a chance to freeboot or react to freebooting.
The reason i find this important is because of balancing matchups. One could use money to even the odds with regard to bashing or beeing bashed, scoring or beeing scored uppon depending on the nature of the upcoming matchup. If i had cash saved up for purchasing a reroll at a later time and suddenly saw myself facing some chaos army with now way out, i might want to quickly redirect my funds to purchse some protective measures. Same goes for facing dwarves and suddenly considering a wizzard quite essential for the show.
In short: if it were possible to implement the board game rules (BOTH coaches can freeboot, no chickening out because of a star), that would be beneficial to the new league, because it reduces money and helps to improve balance. |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Nov 10, 2008 - 15:04 |
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Optihut
Joined: Dec 16, 2004
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Nov 10, 2008 - 15:05 |
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Matches are balanced based on TR/TS, if you alter the TS after the matching, then they are not really balanced anymore. If you want to hire a freebooter, star or wizard, do so before putting them onto the blackbox. After your opponent has been allocated it would defeat the purpose of the box to be able to do it and thus it is not possible. |
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CircularLogic
Joined: Aug 22, 2003
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Nov 10, 2008 - 15:07 |
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If by 'helps to improve balance' you mean 'brings more durable teams into [B] than there will be anyways'... you are right!
That`s why I don`t like the idea. |
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Gromrilram
Joined: Aug 28, 2006
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Nov 10, 2008 - 15:09 |
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"insert stereotype rant about 50% orcs dorfs and khemri here" |
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SillySod
Joined: Oct 10, 2006
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Nov 10, 2008 - 15:12 |
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The games in blackbox are all matched up by TS (Team Strength). Unfortunately TS dosent take any cash you might have into account, it only takes it into account after you spend it. So actually you'll generate balanced matchups which are then completely scewed by star hiring. Even if both sides are allowed to hire its not a sensible rule because it gives you a daft advantage to stack your treasury and theres no way to sensibly account for that advantage while making the matchup. The point of blackbox is to try and exclude ways for people to artificially create unbalanced matchups.
If you are interested in something like this then look into scheduled leagues. |
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"There are those to whom knowledge is a shield. There are those to whom it is a weapon. Neither view is balanced." |
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Quizard
Joined: May 31, 2008
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Nov 10, 2008 - 15:13 |
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Last time i checked there was broad consensus that FUMBBL should stick to the board game's rules (LRB4) as close as possible. In this case its also sensible.
You have to realize that this is the first league on fumbbl that features true blood bowl matches. There is no way to influence your teams development in any way by choosing your opposition by any criteria. Which means, you have to build your teams in a relatively universal manner (good at a lot of things, possibly everything) and you have to use any and all resources you got to deal with the next opponent you are beeing assigned.
Freebooters are a very essential tactical means. Wizards for example are very helpful against teams who prefer to run cages. Cheep cannonfooder linemen are of no use unless you expect a heavy pounding. The concept of freebooting is the concept of transforming cash that could permanently enhance your team in the future into a temporary enhancement that is availiable right now.
I would not be taking the time to write this article if i wasn't convinced that the Bloackbox division would profit enormously from this concept if it was technically posiible to realize it, and if the participating coaches would honor the code of telling their opponents before the game what freebooters they will use. |
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JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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Nov 10, 2008 - 15:23 |
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1- This is not the first league that features true blood bowl matches. WIL and SWL and many more custom leagues beat DivB to it.
2- Rule of thumb: you cannot trust an honor code.
3- If you have enough cash, feel free to hire before activating your DivB team.
4- The best way to create matchups is to base them on TS. If you can hire AFTER the matchup, the TS matching will be royally messed up, which is *against* the point of Blackbox.
5-  |
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Wreckage
Joined: Aug 15, 2004
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Nov 10, 2008 - 15:26 |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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Nov 10, 2008 - 15:27 |
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| JanMattys wrote: | | 4- The best way to create matchups is to base them on TS. If you can hire AFTER the matchup, the TS matching will be royally messed up, which is *against* the point of Blackbox. |
Screwed that quote up, But anyway. I have not kept up with the BlackBox discussion completly BUT based on what I know. I thought once you put your team in "the Box" you would automatically be matched up with a team and off you go. No chance to hire Boots, wizzys and Stars. THUS if you were going to do that you had to BEFORE you went into the box.
In my 281 ranked games and allmost 2 years of playing I have had 1 coach "sneak" in a Star after the match was set up. I see that issue as a non issue in my book. Just another topic for people to rant and go crazy over, call Fumbbl not "true" blood bowl and the such. |
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Wreckage
Joined: Aug 15, 2004
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Nov 10, 2008 - 15:35 |
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| Quizard wrote: |
You have to realize that this is the first league on fumbbl that features true blood bowl matches.
I would not be taking the time to write this article if i wasn't convinced that the Bloackbox division would profit enormously from this concept . |
dude... its not a league... its a division... what you are looking for is a league....
blackbox wont fit your purpose... its not about getting random games... its about getting the most balanced random games....
oh and finding games in ranked doesnt take hours if you are proposing fair ones .... i understand thats kinnd of hard as long as you are new to the page and your understanding of the abilities of the teams is limited...
anyhow if there is anyone in the whole wide fumbblworld who agrees with you... someone who has been here for a year maybe or so.... id really like to know..... because i kind of doubt it.... |
Last edited by Wreckage on %b %10, %2008 - %15:%Nov; edited 1 time in total |
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CircularLogic
Joined: Aug 22, 2003
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Nov 10, 2008 - 15:36 |
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Uhm PainState... did you read what the opening post was suggesting? |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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Nov 10, 2008 - 15:42 |
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Yes I did and I put my 1 cent of thought on the original post. SO my post was not off topic and dealt directly with the original post. Now I offered no solution or helpful advise, just my thought that the original post was rooted in a typical rant that cannot be resolved THUS leading to a string of back and forth, people getting worked up about something they have no controll over. |
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nin
Joined: May 27, 2005
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Nov 10, 2008 - 16:03 |
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Sugestion: go to [L]eague and make a group.
Something to point out, just as a posible flaw... as you cannot chicken out:
Supose your rookie team (probably TS100) gets mached to an about TS 100 Undead, 2 Mummies + Zombies (may be a couple of DPs)... and then your opponent gently informs you that he'll hire the Count... against your team with no money to expend.
That could be done at highger TS too, just build up a good treasury with a rough team like Orcs and then hire Morg.
It only works (and works really bad) when both teams have a similar treasury (and can spend the money in a similar way). |
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Ash
Joined: Feb 03, 2004
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Nov 10, 2008 - 16:11 |
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the only good point I can see in what quizzard is telling us is that you don t hire the same star against 2 differents opponment...
Take Fungus for exemple... Fungus can be great against slow team who like to advance as a bunch (khemry is an exemple). But usualy, against balanced team Fungus is just useless (fun... but still useless).
It s involving some code of course but one thing I would like to see is:
- you activate your team
- you see the 5 closest team you will have to play if you keep that TS
- you can buy freebooter/star
- you get your opponment. Which of course could be one of the 5, or another one as your TS moved... |
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