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Mr_Foulscumm



Joined: Mar 05, 2005

Post   Posted: Dec 03, 2008 - 21:01 Reply with quote Back to top

Peter_Thorpe wrote:
Cherrystomping, always nice


That's the OTHER thread! Let's keep this on topic shall we.

I'm only doing this coz it's the law. Here goes:

Make a team and enter the [B]ox, get PeteW. It's simple but it works. Smile

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Skolopender



Joined: Jun 17, 2006

Post   Posted: Dec 03, 2008 - 21:24 Reply with quote Back to top

JanMattys wrote:
Cherrypicking is old fashion.
Cherry-offering is the new black!

That's why I started humans in DivB!!! To give away my cherry! Very Happy


I'm with you on this! As the worst coach CR wise of those with more than 500 ranked games. I consider myself prime cherry. Now also availible in [B].

Enjoy boys and girls! Cherry offering ftw! I R teh redshirt of fumbbl!

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Dalfort



Joined: Jun 23, 2008

Post   Posted: Dec 03, 2008 - 22:05 Reply with quote Back to top

Pirog wrote:
Ameranth wrote:
Pirog wrote:
Was it fun for your opponent too?


I don't think so. Matter of fact, he seemed rather pissed. Though it did cause the minimum compatibility score to be tweaked on the first day, so the alpha-testing was a success.

To be fair, they played two more games with 9 linos and a TS that made Flings laugh. Smile


Still, it can be worth considering for future reference that your little enjoyment wasted probably around an hour of somebody else's time, and you being whopped in the following matches didn't do him any good. But concern for others seems to be very low priority in internet game communities, so at least you don't have to feel alone in being selfish.


isnt that the point of being selfish.... feeling like the only one that matters..... or is it paranoia? we get cofused.... wait that scitz sommat arrrgh head hurts no more buzz buzz "back into bed Dalfort!"
clarkin



Joined: Oct 15, 2007

Post   Posted: Dec 04, 2008 - 11:18 Reply with quote Back to top

Mr_Foulscumm wrote:
I'm only doing this coz it's the law. Here goes:

Make a team and enter the [B]ox, get PeteW. It's simple but it works. Smile


It used work for me but recently he's turned it around Sad
I suspect loaded dice.
Fallen00



Joined: Oct 16, 2008

Post   Posted: Dec 07, 2008 - 05:22 Reply with quote Back to top

Do not buy any rerolls! ever!
Do not spend your money.
Hire minimum number of player for your "adjusted ts range".
there you go -- this is the new cherrypicking. Enjoy while it last!
Mr_Foulscumm



Joined: Mar 05, 2005

Post   Posted: Dec 07, 2008 - 06:27 Reply with quote Back to top

clarkin wrote:
Mr_Foulscumm wrote:
I'm only doing this coz it's the law. Here goes:

Make a team and enter the [B]ox, get PeteW. It's simple but it works. Smile


It used work for me but recently he's turned it around Sad
I suspect loaded dice.


Well sometimes he is a lucker that's for sure Wink

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CircularLogic



Joined: Aug 22, 2003

Post   Posted: Dec 08, 2008 - 14:27 Reply with quote Back to top

By accident I ran into an interesting way to cherrypick in ranked:

Just have 1 team, a tough team with a very high TS and only play when there is low traffic in the box. Thus you are virtually guaranteed to be the highest team in the box and according to the matching procedures you are paired first against the second highest team. Only if the second highest team is more than 15TS away (including handicaps), then you are just not paired and have to wait for the next pass.
westerner



Joined: Jul 02, 2008

Post   Posted: Dec 08, 2008 - 16:12 Reply with quote Back to top

CircularLogic wrote:
By accident I ran into an interesting way to cherrypick in ranked:

Just have 1 team, a tough team with a very high TS and only play when there is low traffic in the box. Thus you are virtually guaranteed to be the highest team in the box and according to the matching procedures you are paired first against the second highest team. Only if the second highest team is more than 15TS away (including handicaps), then you are just not paired and have to wait for the next pass.

Presume you meant cherrypicking in [B] not [R].

In order for this to work you need a good estimate of the TS of other teams in the box. While this may work occasionally I don't know how reliable this would be over time.

But having a single beat up ~85TS team is probably a risky place to be because you'll likely get matched against fresh new teams.

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CircularLogic



Joined: Aug 22, 2003

Post   Posted: Dec 08, 2008 - 16:26 Reply with quote Back to top

Yep I mean [B]. You have a TS 230 team. This is your only team. The chances that there are teams with a TS of 230 or higher at 9am bbtime are slim. That means your are most likely playing down - probably a considerable amount. Lets say you have won alot and are usually playing at 10 TS disadvantage. By using this technique you suddenly get matches that are in your favor, simply because it`s the only possible match for your team in the box. So if you put your team into the box at this odd time, three things might happen:
1) You get no match - too bad, try again in 30 mins.
2) You get a match with a considerable advantage (cherry successfully picked)
3) You get an even match or at a disadvantage - this is highly unlikely. For that to happen one of the few teams that are actually higher than yours have entered the box. If you are high enough, you can see when their coach enters the chat. And during the low traffic it`s just really unlikely. Even if it happens - you are no worse off than in regular play.

By lowering your TS, you can just shift the probablilities from 1 to 2 to 3.
Ravenmore



Joined: Sep 10, 2008

Post   Posted: Dec 08, 2008 - 16:28 Reply with quote Back to top

Fallen00 wrote:
Do not buy any rerolls! ever!
Do not spend your money.
Hire minimum number of player for your "adjusted ts range".
there you go -- this is the new cherrypicking. Enjoy while it last!


QFT.

2 RRs on an unskilled team = about 10-15 skills on a 0RR team. Show me the handicaps that can even that out.Nuff said.
westerner



Joined: Jul 02, 2008

Post   Posted: Dec 08, 2008 - 17:47 Reply with quote Back to top

Ravenmore wrote:
Fallen00 wrote:
Do not buy any rerolls! ever!
Do not spend your money.
Hire minimum number of player for your "adjusted ts range".
there you go -- this is the new cherrypicking. Enjoy while it last!


QFT.

2 RRs on an unskilled team = about 10-15 skills on a 0RR team. Show me the handicaps that can even that out.Nuff said.

Hmm..

To make this work, you'd have to have appropriate built-in rerolls and Block to avoid turnovers. And one guy with Leader. Dorfs seem like the obvious choice.

You could start with a few rerolls and then ditch them later once your team gets to its TS target range.

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Fallen00



Joined: Oct 16, 2008

Post   Posted: Dec 08, 2008 - 20:18 Reply with quote Back to top

That wouldnt work westerner, as you paid for rerolls already and do not have the Team rating advantage of those paid rerolls.

The thing you want to achieve to cherrypick in [B] is this: Maintain a low TS, have a very high rating.

This is achieved by: Banking all your money, not buying too many players and no rerolls.

Let's say I have a team that has 225 TR and 150TS, ill play most likely a new team with only 140TR,130TS. This is due to the 5 TS advantage of every handicap im giving them out.
or ill play a 170TR,135-140TS team that's recovering. In both cases, these are very easy matches(well not for me, but for a more experienced coach they'd be cake).

The question for christer : is the extra TS cost of the first two reroll balanced?

from my personal opinion, reroll TS cost should be scaled up with team rating -- with no extra TS cost paid for the first two
westerner



Joined: Jul 02, 2008

Post   Posted: Dec 08, 2008 - 20:28 Reply with quote Back to top

Fallen00 wrote:
That wouldnt work westerner, as you paid for rerolls already and do not have the Team rating advantage of those paid rerolls.

Do you not get TS back if you discard all rerolls to 0?

My idea was take a few rerolls at first to facilitate team development, then discard them later once you've got your desired skills.

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Zombie69



Joined: Jul 02, 2007

Post   Posted: Dec 08, 2008 - 21:11 Reply with quote Back to top

Fallen00 wrote:
from my personal opinion, reroll TS cost should be scaled up with team rating -- with no extra TS cost paid for the first two


I don't understand the logic in that. Common wisdom is that rerolls are worth more to you the fewer you have and the lower your TR is.

So in fact rerolls should be scaled down with higher TR, and the first 2 rerolls should be worth more TS than the others!
Fallen00



Joined: Oct 16, 2008

Post   Posted: Dec 08, 2008 - 21:52 Reply with quote Back to top

yea thats more like it zombie
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