joncross
Joined: Mar 06, 2007
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 Posted:
Nov 18, 2008 - 03:20 |
 
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I've played a couple of black box games. I'v e played with with dwarfs. I've loved how fast i find a game, I've loved that the games have been random. I know that two games is neither here nor there and that my opinions aren't statistically useful. However, I think that the best thing about Black box is you can't pimp your team. You can't set the skills up based on the opponents you want to face. I don't care about BR and all the rest of it. For me this is a great way to find a match that doesn't rely on picking. On that basis I'm all for it. |
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Nextflux
Joined: Jan 22, 2008
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Nov 18, 2008 - 04:11 |
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It is good that there is a BBR rank, so punish the BR if your play style is based on team destruction ( think thats the intention of it)
It is also good that winning a blackbox match modifies your next matchup (making it easier to:)
A) meet a stronger team next time
B) meet a tougher opponent next time
this to include rather then exclude new or bad coaches, thus making blackbox a rewarding system for them.
The problem that arises is that if your an excellent coach you most times eliminate B) tougher opponent (because yourself is the tougher).
Then you always have to play a stronger team, and the more you play the stronger the opponents teams gets.
Therefore the should be some limit to the formula (meaning it is better not to be sceduled if your opponent is like +40TS than your own),
or a higher random factor ?
or maybe introducing blackbox lucky/unlucky draw
(the strongest opponent in the scheduler is drawn randomly with no regard to the BR/BRR rating, only TS rating)
Also I still think it BR/BBR only should apply to your current active teams and not retired ones, to prevent abuse, and to reward
playing soft teams/or teams with low winning rate, causing a diversity of races on blackbox. |
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Irgy
Joined: Feb 21, 2007
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Nov 18, 2008 - 07:09 |
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I think the BBR rating is a good idea for what it's trying to do, but I think on the whole it's a patch that fixes one very specific set of symptoms of a much broader problem.
I think that the fundamental problem is that it's impossible to balance coach ratings and TS difference ratings, and I think we shouldn't even try. As an illustration, imagine we did find a reasonably good answer to the question "what TS difference matches with what CR or BR difference to give a roughly 50-50 chance of victory?" - which I think to some extent Christer has answered from the stats in [R], assuming BR and CR are similar anyway. There is then a second question though: "What TS difference can a coach be given game after game and still retain a 50% winning record?". My contention is that for a BR-TS balancing system to be fair in the long run, it would have to resolve both of these questions, and that is flatly impossible because the two questions simply do not have the same answer.
If we simply try to balance TS, and independently balance BR, we'll have a simple and fair system. Trying to add a handicap system based on BR is an interesting idea, and I really think it's a massive unnecessary complication compared to just treating them separately.
So I guess my suggestion is just a bit of a compromise between including BR and leaving it out completely - include it but don't try and balance between a BR mismatch and a TS mismatch. There'll be some games where people play down both TS and BR, but that's just life, and how both players perform in those sorts of games should be just as important to their rating as anything else. Overall, it may not give a 50-50 chance of each side winning every game, but it will be more fair and balanced than any system that tries to. |
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pythrr
Joined: Mar 07, 2006
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Nov 18, 2008 - 07:22 |
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I block your ST5 av10 beast with my... hmm, st2 av6 fling, cos thats all my handicapped TS gave me.... |
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bennyprofane
Joined: Sep 10, 2007
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Nov 18, 2008 - 07:35 |
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I don't think that the BR is a great idea overall, but I have a slightly different issue.
Here's my team's game-list. http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team&op=view&showmatches=1&team_id=509608
I was really happy to begin with about the variety of games against different races I was getting. But recently 4 out of 5 vs orcs and two in a row against the exact same team... any chance that the scheduler could take this sort of thing into account a bit better? Variety is one of the great attractions of the blind-box system, any chance that it could be configured to actually prioritise variety of races and coach-opponents in a non-random manner? I'd be happy to take a little bit of a TS hit in my next game if it could guarantee me that I wouldn't be lining up against small black orcs again. |
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Ullakkomorko
Joined: Aug 10, 2008
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Nov 18, 2008 - 09:37 |
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If half the teams in the box are orcs, then no matter how much you shake it, you're still likely to draw orcs. |
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Nextflux
Joined: Jan 22, 2008
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Nov 18, 2008 - 09:44 |
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yes, also It seems like the distance factor for the same race backfires in the case of orcs
(distance factor for same race ..woodelfs less likely to play woodelfs)
causing orcs less likely to play orcs, and then more likely to _not_ play eachother, but instead backfires making all others play orcs as long as orcs are
the dominating race. |
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odi
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Nov 18, 2008 - 09:47 |
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I just loooove B div so far. No, i havent palyed that many games yet. But they have been a lot more fair than what I remember being offered in R (when I still used to play there). So if I do well, I dont mind playing up a little in TS, I dont really care about my teams getting slaughtered. I'm not in B div to build a 200+ TR team, I'm here to have fun and play BB. I have serious doubts about my AV7 teams even getting much past TR150 before they are beaten to a pulp, but so what? |
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Pro511
Joined: Aug 14, 2006
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Nov 25, 2008 - 16:34 |
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| Christer wrote: |
All B coaches have a Blackbox Ranking (BR), and a Blackbox Bash Ranking (BBR), which work more or less the same as in R. BR is based on winning TDs, while the BBR is based on casualties.
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Can someone explain this more specifically to me?
Is BR based on wins and losses? Or just TD differential? Or just number of TDs per game.
Is BBR based on casualty differential or just casualties per game? And is it only SPP generating casualties or is pushing someone out of bounds and killing them counting towards your BBR rating?
Thanks! |
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Previously intelligent. |
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westerner
Joined: Jul 02, 2008
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Nov 25, 2008 - 18:21 |
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| Pro511 wrote: | | Christer wrote: |
All B coaches have a Blackbox Ranking (BR), and a Blackbox Bash Ranking (BBR), which work more or less the same as in R. BR is based on winning TDs, while the BBR is based on casualties.
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Can someone explain this more specifically to me?
Is BR based on wins and losses? Or just TD differential? Or just number of TDs per game.
Is BBR based on casualty differential or just casualties per game? And is it only SPP generating casualties or is pushing someone out of bounds and killing them counting towards your BBR rating?
Thanks! |
I don't believe specifics have been published.
My guess is it's based on the TD Diff and CAS Diff summed over all your [B] teams, b/c those might be readily available stats, but I don't know. |
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UberEvil
Joined: Oct 20, 2003
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Nov 28, 2008 - 17:13 |
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Got an awesome matchup just now:
BowlBot Processing round.
BowlBot Found 21 coaches.
BowlBot - t0xic vs Lycian (Dwarf 140/139 vs 163/150 Chaos) @873
BowlBot - Tesifonte vs bloodbowljunky (Chaos 153/140 vs 148/139 Dwarf) @894
BowlBot - jundru vs Mully (Chaos 109/106 vs 100/97 Orc) @898
BowlBot - Esxhaton vs Sammler_der_Seelen (Chaos 202/192 vs 215/193 Orc) @873
BowlBot - cmac vs TheCount (Chaos 101/101 vs 100/99 High Elf) @852
BowlBot - svemole vs Brainsaw (Wood Elf 146/135 vs 145/134 Chaos) @840
BowlBot - Bluemi vs Ilzhahkha (Ogre 179/157 vs 169/159 Khemri) @871
BowlBot - KingSnakeeyes vs BillBrasky (Chaos 220/204 vs 179/202 Undead) @835
BowlBot - Dank vs Rawlf (Chaos Dwarf 149/160 vs 164/164 Wood Elf) @859
BowlBot - UberEvil vs Jesperius (Wood Elf 95/66 vs 111/80 Ogre) @562
BowlBot Scheduled 10 matches
BowlBot Not scheduled: arw
A matchup of 562.... Anyone seen lower? The game was an absolute hoot though (watch the replay) and I had great fun. My woodies also climbed down a couple of steps on the ladder to place in bottom five: http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=teams&group=&race=&order=9&nav=10&start=45
Pretty low scores overall. None over 900 |
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xcver
Joined: Mar 10, 2005
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Nov 28, 2008 - 17:23 |
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| UberEvil wrote: |
A matchup of 562.... Anyone seen lower? |
I don't even know what that number stands for.....  |
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"Power without perception is virtually useless and therefore of no true value!" - Ryouken - Master of the Hokuto no Ken Martial Arts |
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bennyprofane
Joined: Sep 10, 2007
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| Posted:
Nov 28, 2008 - 17:48 |
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ahalfling
Joined: Aug 16, 2008
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Nov 28, 2008 - 19:17 |
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| xcver wrote: | | UberEvil wrote: |
A matchup of 562.... Anyone seen lower? |
I don't even know what that number stands for..... |
I'm fairly sure it doesn't stand for what it stood for a few days ago... |
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j0de
Joined: Nov 30, 2005
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| Posted:
Nov 28, 2008 - 19:55 |
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Games Played: 53 (14/16/23)
'nuff said. ^^ |
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