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[B] Major could be a bad idea... but I have a different idea
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pythrr



Joined: Mar 07, 2006
Post   Posted: Nov 25, 2008 - 21:12 Reply with quote Back to top
Circular - we ALL get the point: you don't like BR. Bored now.

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Rijssiej



Joined: Jan 04, 2005
Post   Posted: Nov 25, 2008 - 21:16 Reply with quote Back to top
The idea of blackbox is that you get games easily. When the opponent pool is reduced to 1/4 the size by using a faction based system the idea of the blackbox is lost.
CircularLogic



Joined: Aug 22, 2003
Post   Posted: Nov 25, 2008 - 21:41 Reply with quote Back to top
pythrr wrote:
Circular - we ALL get the point: you don't like BR. Bored now.


Apparently you don`t get the point.. because I like BR. And I haven`t argued anything, but just given a reason, why option 4 isn`t that likely.
Focus



Joined: Oct 15, 2007
Post   Posted: Nov 26, 2008 - 06:14 Reply with quote Back to top
I'm not saying we abolish [B] in favor of some kind of [BF], more so run it alongside. Like I said the idea would need a lot of fleshing out. On the other hand I like the idea of needing to have a high BR to get into majors.... That also solves the problem and in fact gives people an incentive NOT to tweak their BR by losing games with some of their teams.

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Kill-Kill



Joined: Nov 22, 2004
Post   Posted: Nov 26, 2008 - 06:50 Reply with quote Back to top
CircularLogic wrote:
pythrr wrote:
Circular - we ALL get the point: you don't like BR. Bored now.


Apparently you don`t get the point.. because I like BR. And I haven`t argued anything, but just given a reason, why option 4 isn`t that likely.


Well, TR does not directly reflect how much a team wins (I realize I should have quoted your other post, but too lazy to change now), so TR != Team by team ranking.

I personally don't see a problem with individual team BRs. For example, Synn is a good coach, but I know I will win a hell of a lot more games against his gobbos (http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team&op=view&team_id=318591) [160/132] than his skaven (http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team&op=view&team_id=377032) [164/133]. Basically same TR/TS, same CR, but the skaven win 50% more.

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koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005
Post   Posted: Nov 26, 2008 - 08:50 Reply with quote Back to top
I wouldn't want KO tournaments in [B]. They just give something to save/build your team for. i.e more whining and moaning whenever a player dies or someone draws a tough game.

Something like a Championship would be cool.

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CircularLogic



Joined: Aug 22, 2003
Post   Posted: Nov 26, 2008 - 08:55 Reply with quote Back to top
Why transfer the system that is least successful to [B]?
Laviak



Joined: Jul 19, 2004
Post   Posted: Nov 26, 2008 - 09:13 Reply with quote Back to top
Kill-Kill wrote:
... TR != Team by team ranking.

Team ranking is exactly what CircularLogic was talking about .. there used to be a team ranking value, calculated the same way as coach ranking (but for teams). It hasn't existed for a long time though (removed well before my time).

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torsoboy



Joined: Nov 23, 2004
Post   Posted: Nov 26, 2008 - 10:32 Reply with quote Back to top
Zombie69 wrote:
You still don't get it torsoboy. You make multiple teams. They all lose on purpose when scheduled, except for one that tries to win. It will be matched up against easier opponents because of your bad BR. Pretty straightforward really.

Three good solutions have been proposed:
1. Forget all about competitions, this division is not meant to be competitive.
2. Forget BR.
3. Tournaments require high BR to enter.


Thanks for the explanation. Smile

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SillySod



Joined: Oct 10, 2006
Post   Posted: Nov 26, 2008 - 10:41 Reply with quote Back to top
CircularLogic wrote:
DexC wrote:
What about 4: Different BR ratings for each team. Im sure someone mooted this at some point.


Once upon a time there was something called TeamRanking - a rank for every team someone had. It was abolished loong ago despite resistance and every attempt to get it back has failed.. So I reckon the this option can be neglected for the time being


Team Ranking (as a CR type value) would be perfect for [B]. It avoids all of the nasty "I cant start a team" problems and it makes it easy to do rankings for each race and it means that you cant play rubbish to achieve a higher BR.

To be honest, I could probably be content to forget about tournaments in [B] for at least a year if there was a decent BR system for each team.. I'd really enjoy trying to compete for the best team in a particular race (and since you cant exclude teams from the box players would have to maintain their BR, they wouldnt be able to just hibernate it).

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Pro511



Joined: Aug 14, 2006
Post   Posted: Nov 26, 2008 - 14:06 Reply with quote Back to top
How is a Smack not already Blackbox?

Except for the "Pentalty for being a good coach" factor. Wink

That's the #1 reason why I like(d) Smacks. Haven't had time to play one in a while.

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DukeTyrion



Joined: Feb 18, 2004
Post   Posted: Nov 26, 2008 - 14:23 Reply with quote Back to top
I like the idea that tournaments may have a lower level BR cap.

That would make some games really tense if a player is 0.2 BR short of the entry level for a major.

I also think different majors should have different BR entry levels

Major 1) 165 BR required
Major 2) 155 BR required
Major 3) No BR restriction.

Also, I think the BR should apply at the point the team is entered, so if a coach reaches 165.1 then applies their team to Major 1) (where it gets locked), they should then be able to carry on playing [B], knowing their team is in the draw, even if their BR then drops to 164.8
Christer



Joined: Aug 02, 2003
Post   Posted: Nov 26, 2008 - 14:40
FUMBBL Staff
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Pro511 wrote:
How is a Smack not already Blackbox?


Blackbox doesn't commit you to more than one game.
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005
Post   Posted: Nov 26, 2008 - 14:42 Reply with quote Back to top
DukeTyrion wrote:
I like the idea that tournaments may have a lower level BR cap.

That would make some games really tense if a player is 0.2 BR short of the entry level for a major.

I also think different majors should have different BR entry levels

Major 1) 165 BR required
Major 2) 155 BR required
Major 3) No BR restriction.

Also, I think the BR should apply at the point the team is entered, so if a coach reaches 165.1 then applies their team to Major 1) (where it gets locked), they should then be able to carry on playing [B], knowing their team is in the draw, even if their BR then drops to 164.8


So we'd have to start pimping our BR just to get in?

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DukeTyrion



Joined: Feb 18, 2004
Post   Posted: Nov 26, 2008 - 14:50 Reply with quote Back to top
koadah wrote:
DukeTyrion wrote:
I like the idea that tournaments may have a lower level BR cap.

That would make some games really tense if a player is 0.2 BR short of the entry level for a major.

I also think different majors should have different BR entry levels

Major 1) 165 BR required
Major 2) 155 BR required
Major 3) No BR restriction.

Also, I think the BR should apply at the point the team is entered, so if a coach reaches 165.1 then applies their team to Major 1) (where it gets locked), they should then be able to carry on playing [B], knowing their team is in the draw, even if their BR then drops to 164.8


So we'd have to start pimping our BR just to get in?


Just an idea, but yes, you would potentially have to get a high enough BR to enter the tournaments.

No sure a BR can be 'pimped' as you put it, as you can only increase your BR by winning games.

But, nothing wrong with adding a few ideas into the pot, as it were.
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