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Mossbeard



Joined: Jul 03, 2005

Post   Posted: Jan 08, 2009 - 19:35 Reply with quote Back to top

Being able to deactivate in the 5 mins before the matches are scheduled is a good idea.

I think that un-scheduling matches where one coach didn't show up is the best solution.
It happened to me once, my opponent was not online and didn't return until the next day.
I went to the Admin channel, got the game un-scheduled and was able to play Blackbox again a couple hours later.
I don't like the idea of not being able to play for 24 hours just because your opponent is a newb/idiot.
DonTomaso



Joined: Feb 20, 2005

Post   Posted: Jan 08, 2009 - 19:39 Reply with quote Back to top

I also would like the option to play BB even if one team is scheduled. Imagine having a saturday off to Fumbbl, and the first person you are gonna play is a no-show... and you can't BlackBox any more that day.

Might not be to bad if you can play every day, but to some of us, with very limited spare time, it is an issue...

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Irgy



Joined: Feb 21, 2007

Post   Posted: Jan 08, 2009 - 20:26 Reply with quote Back to top

I don't see a problem with deactivate any time between when you click the button and when the match gets scheduled. I don't see anything special about 5 minutes, as long as the scheduler hasn't started processing then no harm's been done.

I also wouln't see any harm in it conceeding automatically after 25 minues if the game hasn't started, half an hour is long enough to start a game. Except of course that it would need to have some way of knowing who to conceed to. I can't see a good way of it figuring this out without help from admins.
treborius



Joined: Apr 05, 2008

Post   Posted: Jan 09, 2009 - 01:14 Reply with quote Back to top

Irgy wrote:
I also wouln't see any harm in it conceeding automatically after 25 minues if the game hasn't started, half an hour is long enough to start a game. Except of course that it would need to have some way of knowing who to conceed to. I can't see a good way of it figuring this out without help from admins.

That's the point though: When an admin is needed, it doesn't happen automatically - also, i doubt admins would sign a 30-minute-limit to respond and fix things - I've been idling in #fumbbladmin for more than 1h w/o response (not criticizing, just reminding of reality).

What I could imagine: If you're the victim of a no-show you could push a little "No-Show Button" and when no more than 1 team has pushed that button within 25 minutes after having gotten scheduled it's an automatic forfeit by the other team. In case both teams pushed that button, the teams will have to be locked until an admin resolves the matter. Smile

That should do both: minimize workload for admins and most often allow coaches to play the very next Black-Box round Smile
SillySod



Joined: Oct 10, 2006

Post   Posted: Jan 09, 2009 - 02:58 Reply with quote Back to top

treborius, I considered that possibility but came to the conclusion that it has a few too many holes. The most obvious one is obviously someone pressing the button while also no-showing... irritating but fixable. The real problem is that someone might contact their opponent and start the game normally only to suddenly quit out after (lets say) 35 minutes having pressed the no-show button and bagged the concession.

I think this is something you need admins for along with a faster disconnect resolution system (give admins the authority to deal with it after x minutes but dont put any garuntee on admin availability). To avoid it becoming yet another burden on admin time perhaps a special group of blackbox moderators could be created to deal with no shows and force through concessions. If smacks are as dead as I've heard then perhaps some of the smack admins would be good candidates for this role.

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Mossbeard



Joined: Jul 03, 2005

Post   Posted: Jan 09, 2009 - 04:08 Reply with quote Back to top

Irgy, you can only apply to Blackbox for 5 minutes before the start of the round, that is what is special about 5 mins.
treborius



Joined: Apr 05, 2008

Post   Posted: Jan 09, 2009 - 08:58 Reply with quote Back to top

SillySod wrote:
treborius, I considered that possibility but came to the conclusion that it has a few too many holes. The most obvious one is obviously someone pressing the button while also no-showing... irritating but fixable. The real problem is that someone might contact their opponent and start the game normally only to suddenly quit out after (lets say) 35 minutes having pressed the no-show button and bagged the concession.

I think this is something you need admins for along with a faster disconnect resolution system (give admins the authority to deal with it after x minutes but dont put any garuntee on admin availability). To avoid it becoming yet another burden on admin time perhaps a special group of blackbox moderators could be created to deal with no shows and force through concessions. If smacks are as dead as I've heard then perhaps some of the smack admins would be good candidates for this role.


i see you points, maybe my suggestion just needs some fixing: put a "No-Show-Link" at a place on the site close to where you submit tickets (or at least don't directly place it on coaches' homepage) and only allow it to be pressed for teams that already have gotten scheduled.

at least, that way, you wouldn't have anyone pushing that one accidentally (as someone might press "Activate" accidentally).

as far as the "criminal" Wink is concerned, who deliberatly drops out of a game just to click on that link: his oppo will do the same and thus trigger an admin taking care of that issue - standard procedure for discos applies similar to R (can't rule on that one automatically, but no additional complexity over R).
sk8bcn



Joined: Apr 13, 2004

Post   Posted: Jan 09, 2009 - 09:59 Reply with quote Back to top

DonTomaso wrote:
I also would like the option to play BB even if one team is scheduled. Imagine having a saturday off to Fumbbl, and the first person you are gonna play is a no-show... and you can't BlackBox any more that day.

Might not be to bad if you can play every day, but to some of us, with very limited spare time, it is an issue...


agrees!

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Chingis



Joined: Jul 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Jan 09, 2009 - 10:32 Reply with quote Back to top

Is there a way to auto-connect once your match is decided?

i.e. The Blackbox decides a random proxy name for each matchup, and then the "Activate" button turns into a "Play matchup" button which automatically launches the game launcher using that particular proxy name.

That way, if one player has been allocated a match but hasn't been recorded as having connected to the match during the subsequent 25 minutes, they cannot activate the Blackbox any more until it's resolved. Investigating the no-show could take however long it takes, but the innocent party could get on with another game as they had been recorded as connecting to the game.
sk8bcn



Joined: Apr 13, 2004

Post   Posted: Jan 09, 2009 - 10:45 Reply with quote Back to top

Chingis wrote:
Is there a way to auto-connect once your match is decided?

i.e. The Blackbox decides a random proxy name for each matchup, and then the "Activate" button turns into a "Play matchup" button which automatically launches the game launcher using that particular proxy name.

That way, if one player has been allocated a match but hasn't been recorded as having connected to the match during the subsequent 25 minutes, they cannot activate the Blackbox any more until it's resolved. Investigating the no-show could take however long it takes, but the innocent party could get on with another game as they had been recorded as connecting to the game.


I really do think that my firewall will block this type of intrusions, or at least, I really hope so :p

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treborius



Joined: Apr 05, 2008

Post   Posted: Jan 09, 2009 - 11:12 Reply with quote Back to top

sk8bcn wrote:
Chingis wrote:
Is there a way to auto-connect once your match is decided?

i.e. The Blackbox decides a random proxy name for each matchup, and then the "Activate" button turns into a "Play matchup" button which automatically launches the game launcher using that particular proxy name.

That way, if one player has been allocated a match but hasn't been recorded as having connected to the match during the subsequent 25 minutes, they cannot activate the Blackbox any more until it's resolved. Investigating the no-show could take however long it takes, but the innocent party could get on with another game as they had been recorded as connecting to the game.


I really do think that my firewall will block this type of intrusions, or at least, I really hope so :p


this is really not a question of intrusion and more specifically there's no way that your firewall could know whether you typed in a "proxy-name" into the game-launcher window or whether it was set by the fumbbl-site Wink

it's in no way related to security at all.

i like the idea Smile
Hogshine



Joined: Apr 04, 2007

Post   Posted: Jan 09, 2009 - 11:46 Reply with quote Back to top

Chingis wrote:
Is there a way to auto-connect once your match is decided?

i.e. The Blackbox decides a random proxy name for each matchup, and then the "Activate" button turns into a "Play matchup" button which automatically launches the game launcher using that particular proxy name.

That way, if one player has been allocated a match but hasn't been recorded as having connected to the match during the subsequent 25 minutes, they cannot activate the Blackbox any more until it's resolved. Investigating the no-show could take however long it takes, but the innocent party could get on with another game as they had been recorded as connecting to the game.


When I click on the play link, it brings up that box but then after that another box asking me to choose where my Bbowl directory is (I normally start games manually), so this would still be pretty easy to bypass if anyone wanted to. Also, I don't really like the idea of it doing this, don't know why but, whether it actually is or not, it feels like intrusion Wink
treborius



Joined: Apr 05, 2008

Post   Posted: Jan 09, 2009 - 12:33 Reply with quote Back to top

Hogshine wrote:
Chingis wrote:
Is there a way to auto-connect once your match is decided?

i.e. The Blackbox decides a random proxy name for each matchup, and then the "Activate" button turns into a "Play matchup" button which automatically launches the game launcher using that particular proxy name.

That way, if one player has been allocated a match but hasn't been recorded as having connected to the match during the subsequent 25 minutes, they cannot activate the Blackbox any more until it's resolved. Investigating the no-show could take however long it takes, but the innocent party could get on with another game as they had been recorded as connecting to the game.


When I click on the play link, it brings up that box but then after that another box asking me to choose where my Bbowl directory is (I normally start games manually), so this would still be pretty easy to bypass if anyone wanted to. Also, I don't really like the idea of it doing this, don't know why but, whether it actually is or not, it feels like intrusion Wink


you're right about it still being easy to bypass if you really have that much "criminal" energy, but that kind of problem could occur in R as easily - someone just disco' after suffering some severe cas. and later claiming it never happened - i'm not aware that's a problem in R and thus wouldn't think it could become one in B - i still think B would profit from making the whole process of dealing with no-shows more automatic.

also not meaning to disallow your false feelings of (in-)security, but it definetly isn't related to security Wink so beg your pardon, but i think those feelings are pretty irrelevant Wink
sk8bcn



Joined: Apr 13, 2004

Post   Posted: Jan 09, 2009 - 14:24 Reply with quote Back to top

treborius wrote:
this is really not a question of intrusion and more specifically there's no way that your firewall could know whether you typed in a "proxy-name" into the game-launcher window or whether it was set by the fumbbl-site Wink

it's in no way related to security at all.

i like the idea Smile


mmmm Are you sure?

Basically, if another PC tries to execute a program from distance, my firewall is suppose to block him if I didn't accepted no?

I guess (but I'm a noob hey) that the fact **I** clicked on the link make this work. Or am I wrong?

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BiggieB



Joined: Feb 19, 2005

Post   Posted: Jan 09, 2009 - 14:34 Reply with quote Back to top

sk8bcn wrote:
BiggieB wrote:
sk8bcn wrote:
Referring to the other thread, it's a problem in the box.

Biggie told it happens at least once a day. And the alpha stage won't be over until it's solved.

Why not making the site simulate a concession for this, within the site itself? It would correct the rosters accordingly as if one team clicked on concession. A counter would be increase by 1 so that admin could watch who has done it too many times. Then ban from blackbox if needed.

Opinion?


I said it happens roughly once a day with the unshedulings usually being activations by accident


So you mean there's more than once a day, then.


how can roughly mean more then once a day? Purposefully changeing what I write will only lead to one thing. Me stopping to read your posts.
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