Wreckage
Joined: Aug 15, 2004
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 Posted:
Jan 13, 2009 - 12:40 |
 
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ok here are some thoughts about the weighting in blackbox of bashy teams and some problems we are facing that people makes them call them unbalanced.... noone will ever call a game unbalanced because he has to play an elf team +10 ts
1. at the start i was thinking about going for all the funny races but since christer made it "no choice" and so i basically have to decide what race it will be i was going for the bashy ones...
additionally he always puts a personal note into his new ideas by giving bashy races a slight advantage like we saw already in the SFC concept...
it basically was counting who got the most won games but if two coaches had equal wins we had an indicator that was taking tds and cas into account... even though tds counted stronger then cas...
the amount of cas was usually so much more that the winner was always a cas making team wich is really bad in an enviroment like bloodbowl were bashy race already attrackt more people
2. even tough i think christer is a pretty nice guy and alot nicer then some admin we had earlier i dont think he really understands how bad that is for the bloodbowl playground and how much harder it makes having some highly needed diversity here
3... conlusion
to make blackbox games fair bashy races would need to have a serious disadvantage like in ranked where people can see what they are playing against... the problem in ranked was not that bashy races got harder games then agile ones but that the bashy races didnt get games at all even if they tried to challenge opponents that were 20 ts +
opinions?
edit: some changes were made to suit pacs comment |
Last edited by Wreckage on %b %13, %2009 - %12:%Jan; edited 2 times in total |
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hardin0
Joined: May 24, 2006
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| Posted:
Jan 13, 2009 - 12:45 |
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Play Ranked  |
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pac
Joined: Oct 03, 2005
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| Posted:
Jan 13, 2009 - 12:48 |
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Paragraphs, capitals and sentences make a post much easier to read. |
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Wreckage
Joined: Aug 15, 2004
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| Posted:
Jan 13, 2009 - 12:49 |
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| hardin0 wrote: | | Play Ranked |
the problem there was that people didnt get games with bashy teams at all even if they were offering games on a 20 ts+ basis |
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Waaargh
Joined: Dec 15, 2003
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Jan 13, 2009 - 13:18 |
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I see your point. I started with dwarfs, because I'd like to try them out over a longer string of games, but I had not much interest in starting up a team which would suffer badly from casualties. Elf teams and skavens does that.
On the other hand I think a well developed passing team could do quite well, since so many coaches focus a lot on hurting the other team... sounds positioning of blodgers, (and plenty of them) will keep the opponent from hurting players too much. That is unless they develop tacklers or come with tackle like dwarfs. As a dwarf coach you can imagine my joy when I meet tacklers on the pitch (I hate sure hands or kickers though). |
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johan
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jan 13, 2009 - 19:55 |
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Tell me again why you should get easier matches just because you play elves (or similar)? Should you be granted more wins by the system just because you suffer more casualties? And if so, why? |
_________________
”It's very sad
To see the ancient and distinguished game that used to be
A model of decorum and tranquillity
Become like any other sport, a battleground...”
—Benny Andersson & Björn Ulvaeus, Chess |
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funnyfingers
Joined: Nov 13, 2005
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| Posted:
Jan 13, 2009 - 19:55 |
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+10 TS Elves should beat a bashy team. Elves can pull out TDs with 3 players left on the field. Try that with Chaos, Orcs, Khemri, or Dwarves. |
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morraywolfymax
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jan 13, 2009 - 20:14 |
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I don't agree with you Wreckage, as it seems you've tried Elfs for 3 games, as opposed to playing orcs, khem, chaos, ogre and lizards for 88 games...
So basing your opinions on such a small percentage of games played in [B]seems a bit...frail! |
_________________
Anyone named Vampy is ace! |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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Jan 13, 2009 - 20:31 |
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Well the Black Box took away the disadvantage that the bashey teams had. YOu cant hide from them anymore, now that is good and bad depending on your perspective. When I first heard of the "BOX" and the once it got started up my first thought was to make a dwarf team, I like them what can I say, so no one could dodge them. Ulitmatly went with humans.
The nice thing about the BOX is being able to make that CL\RSC team with out having to worry about getting matches which in Ranked play becomes allmost impossible at higher TR/TS.
WE could spend pages in a flame war about the pros\cons on CL\RSC teams and how they are overpowered or very weak if you know how to play them. Sticking to the main point. Since their disadvantage was taken away by not being able to dodge them, well everyone who plays against such monsters will just have to figure out how to beat those teams and figure out the disadvantages of playing against the CL\RSC beasts and learn the hard way.
Learning the hard way is obviously not desirable for some coaches so having Christer impliment some golden bullet "code" to create a disadvantage is desirable. But does that not run counterbalance to the main theme of Black Box: the unknown! have no idea who Iam playing theme that a lot of coaches find desirable? OR is this really all about winning/losing? |
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Comish of the:  |
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johan
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jan 13, 2009 - 20:43 |
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Squishy teams don't actually perform worse than anyone else when it comes to winning. What they're poorer at is growing huge. But unlike in ranked, there is no reward mechanic for having big, big teams. |
_________________
”It's very sad
To see the ancient and distinguished game that used to be
A model of decorum and tranquillity
Become like any other sport, a battleground...”
—Benny Andersson & Björn Ulvaeus, Chess |
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Pastorn
Joined: Jun 13, 2004
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Jan 13, 2009 - 21:04 |
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I dont join this forum that often but now i think i want to join. First of all i Loooove Black box.
If i want to play, i get a game fast. I mostly play blood bowl for fun, and i want to be a better player. With black box i never know what to play wich forces me to learn how to use my teams strenghts and get advantages out of my opps weaknesses.
i play an elf team and a necro team - none of them a very bashy teams. I have played almost 30 games against 6 orc teams, 4 dwarfs, 2 chaos dwarfs, 4 khemri teams,3 ogers (with -70 in team rating twice!)and 2 lizard teams (dont know if they counts) and won most of them.
None of those coaches tried to destroy my teams, the 240TR ogers almost did but they do that be default if you are unlucky.
I´m absolutely not one of the most skilled coaches around here, but i see it as a challenge and its fun. So for me BB is the best thing that happended in fumbbl lately,
so i say: stop complaining and try to have fun!! |
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pac
Joined: Oct 03, 2005
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Jan 14, 2009 - 10:35 |
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| Wreckage wrote: | | edit: some changes were made to suit pacs comment |
\o/
I disagree.  |
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hardin0
Joined: May 24, 2006
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Jan 14, 2009 - 10:55 |
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| Wreckage wrote: | | hardin0 wrote: | | Play Ranked |
the problem there was that people didnt get games with bashy teams at all even if they were offering games on a 20 ts+ basis |
Then dont play stupid single-idea teams, and get matches in ranked |
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JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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| Posted:
Jan 14, 2009 - 11:05 |
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| Wreckage wrote: | | hardin0 wrote: | | Play Ranked |
the problem there was that people didnt get games with bashy teams at all even if they were offering games on a 20 ts+ basis |
1- Grow a personality. That helps getting games.
2- Play against cool coaches who don't dodge games. This will also improve your overall fun, even if it will lower your winning record. |
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DukeTyrion
Joined: Feb 18, 2004
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Jan 14, 2009 - 11:26 |
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| johan wrote: | | Squishy teams don't actually perform worse than anyone else when it comes to winning. What they're poorer at is growing huge. But unlike in ranked, there is no reward mechanic for having big, big teams. |
Squishy teams have a problem in leagues and KOs, because they don't have time to recover from a bad game before the next match, where a bashy team would have got stronger. So in a VET smack they may be 150/150 vs 150/148 for game 1, but often it's 144/131 vs 158/156 for the second game.
However, in Blackbox, every game is a recovery match, since you are always playing against someone of equal TS. Therefore whether they are good at growing or not, is not very relevant.
I would however say, that for a squishy team to play 150/150 vs a bashy team of 182/175 can be alot more of a disaster to the team than the bashy team being the lower rated. This though is more of an issue with allowing a 15 TS gap, counting handicaps in the formula and rating TDs scored much higher than casualties (which you have aluded to earlier). |
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