Eddy
Joined: Aug 04, 2004
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Jan 27, 2009 - 13:58 |
 
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Apparently, Christer doesn't think it's a problem that some team purposely lower their chance to win in order to outbash and trash teams with a similar TS but focusing on winning. From what i saw in chat, he didn't seem to think the rebate for 0/1 RR was a problem. To be completely accurate, his answer was "Do the same, then." |
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sk8bcn
Joined: Apr 13, 2004
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Jan 27, 2009 - 14:24 |
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| Eddy wrote: | | Apparently, Christer doesn't think it's a problem that some team purposely lower their chance to win in order to outbash and trash teams with a similar TS but focusing on winning. From what i saw in chat, he didn't seem to think the rebate for 0/1 RR was a problem. To be completely accurate, his answer was "Do the same, then." |
The Rebate is IMO, ok, not the leader thing IMO. |
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Frankenstein
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jan 27, 2009 - 14:31 |
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| Christer wrote: | | 7. If the two teams are of the same race, multiply suitability by 0.97 |
I don't want to make a big fuzz about it, but this favours dwarf, khemri and orc players:
If you don't want to play against khemri: Play khemri!
If you don't want to play against orcs: Play orcs!
If you don't want to play against dwarfs: Play dwarfs!
To me this seems a bit unfair to those coaches who deliberately choose unpopular rosters to play with.
Example:
Scheduler wants to pair khemri, khemri, human, elf in a specific TR range. Normally it would choose human vs. elf and khemri vs. khemri. However, due to the modifier, games switch to khemri vs. human and khemri vs. elfs. Human and elf coaches get punished, khemri coaches are rewarded. Not necessary, in my opinion. |
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Fama
Joined: Feb 09, 2005
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Jan 27, 2009 - 14:34 |
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If you don't want to play random games, but instead want to dodge khemri, ors or dwarves, maybe you shouldn't play in the random games division? |
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Eddy
Joined: Aug 04, 2004
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Jan 27, 2009 - 14:39 |
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| sk8bcn wrote: | | The Rebate is IMO, ok, not the leader thing IMO. |
I was not giving my own opinion, just stating what i read =) |
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DukeTyrion
Joined: Feb 18, 2004
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Jan 27, 2009 - 14:41 |
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| Fama wrote: | | If you don't want to play random games, but instead want to dodge khemri, ors or dwarves, maybe you shouldn't play in the random games division? |
But, by the same degree I can see his point, as currently it's not really random.
In a true random division, the whole not playing against the same race thing shouldn't be an issue.
If you don't want to play Orcs versus Orcs, then you are restricting your selection of games, which is exactly what ranked is for.
If you want a random opponent out of the pool, the same as league, then it sould not matter that it's the same race.
You can forget the whole 'benefits Orcs and Khemri' argument, but the core issue is still the same. |
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xcver
Joined: Mar 10, 2005
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Jan 27, 2009 - 14:41 |
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| Eddy wrote: | | Apparently, Christer doesn't think it's a problem that some team purposely lower their chance to win in order to outbash and trash teams with a similar TS but focusing on winning. From what i saw in chat, he didn't seem to think the rebate for 0/1 RR was a problem. To be completely accurate, his answer was "Do the same, then." |
If this was really his answer it doesn't make sense, cause if you plan on winning 0 rerolls is not helping, so I should equip my elves with 0 rr to get a better ts and lessen my chances of winning for the sake of ts optimization?
I don't even know what the rebate is trying to accomplish? Help teams out that deliberately frontload? |
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Eddy
Joined: Aug 04, 2004
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Jan 27, 2009 - 14:53 |
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| xcver wrote: | If this was really his answer it doesn't make sense, cause if you plan on winning 0 rerolls is not helping, so I should equip my elves with 0 rr to get a better ts and lessen my chances of winning for the sake of ts optimization?
I don't even know what the rebate is trying to accomplish? Help teams out that deliberately frontload? |
Well, precisely. I believe his point is that teams with only 0 or 1 RR are significantly hampered when trying to win, and that this is naturally reflected in TS. Personally, i'm not sure i disagree with this opinion, but I think it's worth debating if the extra skills you get are worth the loss of RR. Likewise, the fact that Leader doesn't cancel the rebate is up to debate.
Since Christer answered my question yesterday, i believed it might be interesting for the community to know it. I did not intend to start the debate again (there is a thread dedicated to that question). |
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'The generation of random numbers is too important to be left to chance.'
Robert R. Coveyou |
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xcver
Joined: Mar 10, 2005
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Jan 27, 2009 - 14:55 |
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| Eddy wrote: | | Well, precisely. I believe his point is that teams with only 0 or 1 RR are significantly hampered when trying to win, and that this is naturally reflected in TS. |
which ofc is moot when the teams don't have win as first priority. |
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Eddy
Joined: Aug 04, 2004
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Jan 27, 2009 - 14:57 |
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My personal opinion is that the "0 RR" thing, especially with Leader, is way too easy for teams that solely focus on bashing, so i think we have the same view on this. The point of my original post was merely to give what i understood as Christer's point of view.
(PS: you've got a PM, xcver  ) |
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'The generation of random numbers is too important to be left to chance.'
Robert R. Coveyou |
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odi
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jan 27, 2009 - 15:12 |
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I dont erally care about the 0 RR + leader thingy... Any team with only 1 RR usually fails something. But I wouldnt mind playing more skaven vs skaven games, which usually tend to be fun, high scoring and lots of casualties. |
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westerner
Joined: Jul 02, 2008
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Jan 27, 2009 - 15:45 |
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| Balle2000 wrote: | A couple of questions for everyone (I'm not sure about the answers myself):
Doesn't removing the BBR (Blackbox Bash Rating) give milder conditions for teams focusing purely on slaughter? |
As I understood it BBR didn't have much net effect on scheduling previously. It was heavily outweighed by BR, as others said. |
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CircularLogic
Joined: Aug 22, 2003
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Jan 27, 2009 - 15:58 |
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The reason why the mirror-factor was introduced, if I remember correctly:
Due to the racial chart, it`s virutally impossible to end up with a 0TS difference if you have different races. That means, that mirror matches are favoured by the scheduler because they are more likely to result in smaller TS differences due to no modification by the racial chart.
Thus this mirror-factor was included to remove the bias FOR mirror matches. Though I think it was overdone and 0.99 or 0.985 would be sufficient. |
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clarkin
Joined: Oct 15, 2007
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Jan 27, 2009 - 16:12 |
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| westerner wrote: | | Balle2000 wrote: | A couple of questions for everyone (I'm not sure about the answers myself):
Doesn't removing the BBR (Blackbox Bash Rating) give milder conditions for teams focusing purely on slaughter? |
As I understood it BBR didn't have much net effect on scheduling previously. It was heavily outweighed by BR, as others said. |
Removing BBR and BR means teams that focus on causing cas (high BBR) but don't care about winning games (low BR) now get TOUGHER matches than before. In the old system as BR counted triple, over time they would get easier and easier matches. Now they get even TS matches like everyone else. |
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Frankenstein
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jan 27, 2009 - 16:20 |
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| CircularLogic wrote: | The reason why the mirror-factor was introduced, if I remember correctly:
Due to the racial chart, it`s virutally impossible to end up with a 0TS difference if you have different races. That means, that mirror matches are favoured by the scheduler because they are more likely to result in smaller TS differences due to no modification by the racial chart.
Thus this mirror-factor was included to remove the bias FOR mirror matches. Though I think it was overdone and 0.99 or 0.985 would be sufficient. |
Ah, I see.
Interesting, thx. |
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