FUMBBL :: Online Blood Bowl League

Snappy_Dresser

Joined: Feb 11, 2005

Posted: Feb 05, 2009 - 20:25

PurpleChest wrote:

westerner wrote:

Is it possible to have [B] discussions in the [B] forums without non [B] players griefing all over it?

I don't see [B] players whining in [R] discussions. How about some professional courtesy?

um, no.

Every fumbbl coach is a B coach, at least in potencial, or are we that do not currently play not invited to? If so, B can only get smaller.

Especially in a thread that seeks to encourage wider participation, is not the view of the non participator important?

There is a world of difference between constructively participating in the discourse, and the pissing all over the process that some unnamed coaches seem to be engaging in, both here and in IRC. Both of which also have no possible outcome than the ruining of Blackbox. So which is it? I find your statement quite disengenuous.

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Pirog

Joined: Jul 13, 2006

Posted: Feb 07, 2009 - 02:54

After having some rough draws lately I have noticed quite a big problem with the Box, that might have been discussed to death allready.

In my last 3 matches my ogre team has faced multi dp khemri beefed up with Ramtut III. Looking at the latest of those teams it stands pretty clear that the coaches (yeah, I was tempted to use some bad word in front of it) that have these teams live neatly just on the amount of forfeits they get. They get good win stats, they get good player development due to double MVP's, they get good money to hire Ramtut III and they get a juicy FF. All can be achieved without having much skill, since it's just to chose dp on every skeleton you get.

I don't really know what to do about it, but it very much goes against the idea of how this division is supposed to work and it's sad if it in the end ruins what could have been a really fun division for a broad group of coaches.

NNNChef

Joined: Dec 09, 2003

Posted: Feb 07, 2009 - 15:45

So what is the problem? Where is the fun for these players, when their opponents concede? If you face them, then concede. If everyone concede, they would stop playing in a such destructive way.

Me myself have had up to now pretty even distribution among different races as opponents. And I haven't face up to now any teams with lots of DP. May be it will come in higher TS.

Pirog

Joined: Jul 13, 2006

Posted: Feb 07, 2009 - 16:20

You seriously fail to see a problem in that?

I also doubt that concessions are a discouragement for that type of coach. I bet most of them takes the bonus they team recieves for free as something positive.

Snappy_Dresser

Joined: Feb 11, 2005

Posted: Feb 07, 2009 - 16:25

Pirog wrote:

After having some rough draws lately I have noticed quite a big problem with the Box, that might have been discussed to death allready.

In my last 3 matches my ogre team has faced multi dp khemri beefed up with Ramtut III. Looking at the latest of those teams it stands pretty clear that the coaches (yeah, I was tempted to use some bad word in front of it) that have these teams live neatly just on the amount of forfeits they get. They get good win stats, they get good player development due to double MVP's, they get good money to hire Ramtut III and they get a juicy FF. All can be achieved without having much skill, since it's just to chose dp on every skeleton you get.

I don't really know what to do about it, but it very much goes against the idea of how this division is supposed to work and it's sad if it in the end ruins what could have been a really fun division for a broad group of coaches.

Your OGRES (probably the most common race in the box, if you go by my game stats) are having a problem with diversity? Well forgive me if I don't fall over myself to help you. My advice to any coach who wants more diversity in [B] is to be proactive, have at least 5 teams, and make at least 3 of them not orcs, ogres, khemri, or dwarfs. Other wise, you don't really have a leg to stand on.

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<PurpleChest> the way it splooshed got me so excited

"I hear that shadow is a douchebag"
-Mr Foulscumm

Pirog

Joined: Jul 13, 2006

Posted: Feb 07, 2009 - 16:44

Quote:

Your OGRES (probably the most common race in the box, if you go by my game stats) are having a problem with diversity?

No. I have no problem with the diversity of the races. I enjoy matches against khemri, ogres and orcs as long as the team builds are not one sided and created to destroy the other teams.

The problem with the multi dp khemri teams is that it becomes a way to abuse the system. You can build a great team by scaring other teams into conceding, and as a result you get MVP's to develop your team, you get +FF and you get money to continue to hire Ramtut III to make the scare tactics even more succesful.

And just to clearify, no, I'm not saying that all people with multi dp khemri are abusing the system. But I doubt it was Christer's intention to have a substantial amount of concessions in the Blackbox division.

MadTias

Joined: Jun 19, 2004

Posted: Feb 07, 2009 - 17:10

DukeTyrion wrote:

After having taken a mini-break I came back to discover that the games in Blackbox have dropped off quite alot.

Now, it might be because of the Major taking place, or it could be that the new toy syndrome has gone, but I wonder if Blackbox having a lack of a target has had any impact on this.

Lack of targets is certainly why I don't play B.

Malmir

Joined: May 20, 2008

Posted: Feb 07, 2009 - 17:12

I stopped playing blackbox a couple of months ago because...
a) there was no long term point to try and achieve so I found it boring
b) I kept getting much worse mismatches than I could find in ranked.
c) Every game seemed to be against orc, dwarf, khemri or chaos.
d) I love the ranked tournaments and would rather prepare teams for those.

As I no longer play BB I don't really care what happens to it or whether people think my criticism valid, but thought people who do care about it may like to know why at least one person stopped playing it when they are thinking about tweaking it.

PainState

Joined: Apr 04, 2007

Posted: Feb 07, 2009 - 18:15

Malmir wrote:

I stopped playing blackbox a couple of months ago because...
a) there was no long term point to try and achieve so I found it boring
b) I kept getting much worse mismatches than I could find in ranked.
c) Every game seemed to be against orc, dwarf, khemri or chaos.
d) I love the ranked tournaments and would rather prepare teams for those.

A) would be taken care of by having some type of Tournament structure.

The problems arises with B to D

B) Keep getting mismatches and your team is on the wrong end of the mismatch on a consitant basis makes

D) allmost impossible to prep for anything and then couple that with.

C) allways playing bashers makes preping futile.

On top of that allways playing bashers does turn people off to the BOX. Malmir obviously is one of those coaches. If the perception and reality of BOX of being a "basher" Div well then a lot of coaches will not play in the DIV period. No matter how much guys who like [B} argue the other way they will not be able to overcome this.

I like the BOX for what it is. I play games in the BOX when I have no League games and the Gamefinder is devoid of coaches during the week.

IF there were some tournaments attached to it would not change how I approach games in the BOX. For some coaches it would. My main concern with the BOX and tournaments is this: IF there is a BOX major well the only way to compete in the BOX is to fight fire with fire. Make that Basher team of your choice and go at it. That is not a bad thing! it is what it is.

In the big pitcture anybody who plays in Majors/Minors will conceede that there are only around 5 Viable races that have a good shot at winning in a tournament structure. SO the majority of coaches will choose those teams. A minority of coaches will choose those other races that have no shot at surviving a tournament for the challenge of it, and they get crushed but had fun with it.

As I posted this I checked the Games going on in the BOX. This is just a VERY SMALL SAMPLE OF 16 coaches. It is just a snapshot of a 10 minute period.

16 Coaches
11 Had two teams only {B}
3 Had one team only [B]
2 Had 3+ [b} teams

Of the 16 coaches 12 of them had a Khemri team.
of the 16 Coaches 15 of them had one of the other dreaded basher teams: Orcs, Chaos and Ogres.

This could be broken down farther but you understand the point. My one glance at the BOX, which is just a snap shot, reinforces the reality: BASHERS rule the Box, it is not perception.

I have gotten to the end of this and now realize that in the end I really could care less. In the end I just play to have fun and I will go to what ever Div on Fumbbl that achieves that goal on a consitant basis, barring NUFFLE messing with me, so take this post how ever you want. Its just my thoughts for the day on the BOX.

funnyfingers

Joined: Nov 13, 2005

Posted: Feb 07, 2009 - 21:17

I think the Top 10 list is a pretty good target.

I have:
Top Active Norse Star
Most Active Top Norse Stars
Top Norse Passer
Only Lineman in Active Top Norse Blockers and is #2
#10 Active Top Norse Blocker
#2 Active Most Valuable Norse Player
#3 Highest Passing Norse
#4 and #6 Highest Rushing Norse

Pseudologist

Joined: Feb 07, 2009

Posted: Feb 20, 2009 - 11:00

Khemri is a problem in every division. in LRB6 they don't get mummies anymore and skeletons cost 10k more. updating the client would solve a lot of problems.

pythrr

Joined: Mar 07, 2006

Posted: Feb 20, 2009 - 11:28

i target khemri mummies....

this is what you meant, no?

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PhrollikK

Joined: Nov 04, 2006

Posted: Feb 20, 2009 - 11:37

Malmir wrote:

I stopped playing blackbox a couple of months ago because...
a) there was no long term point to try and achieve so I found it boring
b) I kept getting much worse mismatches than I could find in ranked.
c) Every game seemed to be against orc, dwarf, khemri or chaos.
d) I love the ranked tournaments and would rather prepare teams for those.

Ditto. It really is pointless after a while. Oh and all the concessions give me a bitter taste in my mouth. It's OK to concede a failing/mauling game sure, but concessions on the first turn because you got "the wrong opponent/race" is just not good for the scheme of things.

In my view Bbox is great for the BB junkies who like to pimp their Dwarves and Khemri as they can't get games in [R] they can get games on demand from [B]. But if you have any other aims it will be an uphill battle. I have gone back to Ranked simply for the Tourneys.

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