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Poll
Should there be a concession rule?
Yes
56%
 56%  [ 74 ]
No
16%
 16%  [ 22 ]
Pie
26%
 26%  [ 34 ]
Total Votes : 130


arv9673



Joined: Mar 07, 2006

Post   Posted: Feb 25, 2009 - 17:24 Reply with quote Back to top

My $0.02: In a recent game I conceded a [B]ox match due to technical difficulties. I had just installed a new Video card and it had messed with java. (Turns out it just re-updated 6.11, but I didn't know at the time.) Anyway, I am incredibly impatient and was not going to sit through the excruciating game, nor was I going to make my opponent do the same. Unfortunately, I conceded. The Kicker? It was a Chaos team with three claws. I got banned for dodging the evil hurtful team. I was reinstated the next time I logged back on, but the Admin (I forget who it was) made sure in no uncertain terms that I wasn't to do that again. I know it's against the site rules, conceding with "No reason," but when RL takes over, I concede. It's a game, a fun game, sometimes a frustrating game, but a game nonetheless.
odi



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Feb 25, 2009 - 17:34 Reply with quote Back to top

Just give people the benefit of the doubt first, internet connections do go down, real life issues happen (i guess we could avoid the flood and earth quake problems if people had laptops so they could grab those with them when they run). In all my time on fumbbl, I havent had that many discos from opponents because they were loosing. I have wasted plenty of my life playing here, I've had more people disconnecting because of technical difficulties or asking to finish the game later because of real life issues. Sure it sounds worse when they disco when you are winning, but it does happen when you are loosing too.

Once I was playing someone and he discoed so I followed the normal rules, sent him a PM that I'd like to finnish the game later. A couple hours later I sent him a PM that never mind. Well, the guy didnt come back online until almost a week later, since he had really lost his connection. When he got here, he looked me up in chat and explained me the problem and I didnt mind.

And yes, I've also had someone disco on me, and go off line for a couple of hours, I PM'd him too that I'd like to finnish the game, just because he was whining so much during the game and using foul language too. He never replied but started another game with his team 2 hours later, so I filed a ticket. And he was punished.

The problem in B is that you cant activate your other teams, that is annoying, but we'll just have to live with it for the time being. Luckily that's happened to me only once (in about 200 games), and I only missed 1 round after that, before my team was unscheduled.
westerner



Joined: Jul 02, 2008

Post   Posted: Feb 25, 2009 - 18:04 Reply with quote Back to top

I agree with odi to give the benefit of the doubt on disonnections, in 300 games I have had only 1 suspicious disco and giving the benefit of the doubt resolved it.

But an accelerated disconnection policy for [B] might be worth considering.

_________________
\x/es
WardenUSA



Joined: Jan 24, 2008

Post   Posted: Feb 25, 2009 - 18:42 Reply with quote Back to top

To restate my intention because I think some people are thinking that I am advocating a concession for all disconnections, I'm not. I wanted first to know if people wanted a D/C rule, and second how it would be implimented. My vote would be to only force D/C where there is evidence the person did it on purpose and would not work towards rescheduling. I think if we allowed teams to "sleep" if something like this happens then someone could play thier other BlackBox teams
Synn



Joined: Dec 13, 2004

Post   Posted: Feb 25, 2009 - 18:43 Reply with quote Back to top

I like the whole "no public witchhunt" rule. Considering it is laughable in terms of execution. Stats usually make it easy to figure out who is screwing up and then the fumbbl brutality comes to bear.

We do forgive though. People have left Pythrr alone for his past transgression.

__Synn Very Happy
Tathar



Joined: Sep 29, 2006

Post   Posted: Feb 25, 2009 - 18:53 Reply with quote Back to top

WardenUSA wrote:
To restate my intention because I think some people are thinking that I am advocating a concession for all disconnections, I'm not. I wanted first to know if people wanted a D/C rule, and second how it would be implimented. My vote would be to only force D/C where there is evidence the person did it on purpose and would not work towards rescheduling. I think if we allowed teams to "sleep" if something like this happens then someone could play thier other BlackBox teams


Speaking form total ignorance (only have 1 black box team), I thought this was already possible. Last time someone dropped on me, since the teams were locked/scheduled to play, I rescheduled to play later. I assumed that had I more teams then I could activate and the bot would pick form my remaining teams. Is this not the case? Does having an unresolved scheduled match exclude you from the draw?
funnyfingers



Joined: Nov 13, 2005

Post   Posted: Feb 25, 2009 - 18:56 Reply with quote Back to top

Synn wrote:

We do forgive though. People have left Pythrr alone for his past transgression.

__Synn Very Happy


Pray tell Shocked
Mr_Foulscumm



Joined: Mar 05, 2005

Post   Posted: Feb 25, 2009 - 19:10 Reply with quote Back to top

Public Witch Hunt?

Sounds like fun Smile

_________________
Everybody's favorite coach on FUMBBL
johan



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Feb 25, 2009 - 19:23 Reply with quote Back to top

pac wrote:
Justice must be seen to be done though.


"Justice, like lightning, ever should appear to few men's ruin, but to all men's fear. "

_________________
”It's very sad
To see the ancient and distinguished game that used to be
A model of decorum and tranquillity
Become like any other sport, a battleground...”

—Benny Andersson & Björn Ulvaeus, Chess
Mossbeard



Joined: Jul 03, 2005

Post   Posted: Feb 25, 2009 - 20:14 Reply with quote Back to top

1. The concession rule (no conceeding without good reason) is really stupid. It only exists because of a few idiots who ruined it for everyone.
2. Rules for concessions and disconnecting should be the same in every division.
3. If you are playing a game and something in real life comes up, just concede the game. If you expect your opponent to reschedule you are being a selfish jerk. I am shocked that everyone is so sympathetic to someone who suddenly wants to quit 30 minutes into a game. I mean if it is a tournament game or something important then maybe rescheduling is worth it. For a typical Ranked or Blackbox game just concede.

It concerns me that because of the stupid concession rule you might get in trouble with the Admins for choosing to conceded for a game for a real life reason. For me the only real reason to concede a game is a real life reason, conceding just because you are getting stomped is weak.

In almost 2000 games on fumbbl I have never encountered anyone trying to pull the stunt WardenUSA describes, so I don't think it is a major problem. However I really hope that the anyone doing this is severely punished.
Naboimp



Joined: Dec 23, 2008

Post   Posted: Feb 25, 2009 - 21:45 Reply with quote Back to top

The person who asks to reschedule is no more a jerk than the person who refuses to just to avoid being inconvenienced. Certainly, if the game were in [R], [A], [U], and especially if it were in [L], there would be no reason to insist on a concession unless the makeup date was unreasonably far in the future. In [B], there just needs to be a fix to allow another [B] team to play in the interim.

If it were just a matter of a hit to a coaching record, or even the loss of earnings and MVP SPP, then perhaps the concession isn't such a terrible consequence, but the potential loss of star players due to a concession makes such requirement unreasonable if the coach is willing to play the game through in the near future.
BiggieB



Joined: Feb 19, 2005

Post   Posted: Feb 25, 2009 - 22:42 Reply with quote Back to top

pac wrote:

I don't want people put in the stocks, but as long as everything happens behind closed doors, you can't be surprised that there is a lack of faith or confidence in the workings of the system.


Where is the lack of faith and confidence in the system you are reffering to pac? Maybe Im blind but all I see is a group of people working very hard to help run this site.

as for wardenUSA issue I do understand his concerns, but a ruleset for B is being developed as we speak. The finished blackbox will deal with people like your opponent, but in the meantime you have to enjoy B for what it is an unfinished division which is open for testing.

best

Biggie
pac



Joined: Oct 03, 2005

Post   Posted: Feb 25, 2009 - 23:08 Reply with quote Back to top

BiggieB wrote:
Where is the lack of faith and confidence in the system you are reffering to pac? Maybe Im blind but all I see is a group of people working very hard to help run this site.

Things are running pretty smoothly at the moment, but we don't all forget past situations so quickly. Wink

Good times and good people will make a bad system work, and this may cause people to forget that it's a bad system ...


And stop being so damn defensive all of you! Razz I haven't said that all admins are lazy so-and-sos, I've said that it's only to be expected that a secret system may lead to people having doubts that punishments are being fairly applied.
Plorg



Joined: May 08, 2005

Post   Posted: Feb 25, 2009 - 23:14 Reply with quote Back to top

pac wrote:
...all admins are lazy...

Shocked
Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad
Mossbeard



Joined: Jul 03, 2005

Post   Posted: Feb 26, 2009 - 00:00 Reply with quote Back to top

Naboimp, I disagree completely. Your first sentence make no sense whatsoever.
Both coaches knew the game would take an hour to an hour and a half. If one of them wants to quit early they should concede the game. It is completely selfish and unreasonable to expect someone to reschedule because they agreed to a game and then want to quit early. Maybe I don't want my team tied up for a week or however long until the game is rescheduled or in the case of Blackbox all my teams unable to play until the game is finished.
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