AeoN2
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Dec 09, 2003 - 23:28 |
 
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this is how I play(ed) WA's... pretty long post
With the old WA rules:
WA were sweepers to keep far back for blitzing/opening up enemy lines on defense, or to keep back on offense to protect if a sudden fumble causes the opponent to get an opening in my lines to run up through with a stolen ball.
Another use of WA's I sometimes used on offense (especially if the opponent has no kicker), was to keep the WA close to a sideline (one square away) to either blitz an player out of the field, or just grab a holding space for my offense to nest under. This tactic I only used with block/pro WA's, because inherent in the tactic is the "baiting" of a WA trap... if my opponent sets up a WA trap (hopefully a poor one since most of his team should be occupied with other things) he needs to use alot of players to guard it, leaving alot of room on the field. Even with a 2d block where he picks the results, a block/pro WA has about 5/6 chance to make it through a good WA trap (and with poor WA traps this increases). Then I have a WA that is surrounded by some players, keeping them occupied, while the rest of my team breaks down the remnants of the opponents team and can get the ball into a safe scoring position. A smart opponent would leave my WA alone as much as possible, and concentrate on instead making my progress on the field hard.
With the new WA rules:
WA are now LoS fodder since the only thing they do well is block. They do moderately well because of their high ST and AV, but a wise opponent doesn't shy away from the WA and instead focuses on bringing it down, making it hard for it to get back in the game if lucky. Since the WA rules make blitzing with the WA very risky they are useless backfield unless used in a plain support position (MickeX brought up this idea, which I admit I haven't used since the new WA rules came, but will test out).
The benefit of a WA offensively is that it now is very useful in a fray of opponents, with its high ST and Frenzy giving it many tactical options. Combined with Guard and Tentacles a WA should be very useful to tie up players and getting assists where you need them. Pro is still extremely useful since the block rerolling will often come in handy. I do believe that getting the first 6 spp for block will be the hardest for new WA's (even more so than before).
Conclusion:
WA tactics have changed drasticly, but they haven't become useless. They are far less interesting to use (imho), but present some new options that may make them useful enough for BG's... to sum it up, if I was making a new Chaos team now I would rather have bought a troll...
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AeoN2 |
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deathgerbil
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Dec 14, 2003 - 22:15 |
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I found that wild animals are virtually useless on both offence and defence, - on offence they generally start being able to hit one person. after knocking that one person over, your minotaur is pretty much useless, because unless your opponent is a complete and utter idiot, he will move away his people, and your minotaur will never be able to get off a single hit. even with agility 1 or 2 guys, most of the time my opponents will rather trip themselves as the last action of their turn than be hit by a wild animal. that way the minotaur might tie up ONE person for part of the half, if his agility is a 1 or a 2, but anything more and your minotaur will be reduced to playing tag. tentacles might be sort of an option to stop people from running away, but as people have said before, - its highly unlikely that your minotaur or rat ogre will be able to get enough spps any time soon in order to get block, much less tentacles. sure, minotaurs have frenzy, but since they have pretty low av ( , so they get stunned a ton of the time, and once your minotaurs stunned, he is basically out of the drive. |
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MickeX
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Dec 14, 2003 - 22:56 |
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I think the mistake here is the belief that WAs will win you games. They won't anymore. They may however be very good at getting in the way and generally bother your opponents.
BTW, the Help section here at FUMBBL still gives the old description of Wild Animal. |
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origami
Joined: Oct 14, 2003
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Dec 14, 2003 - 23:26 |
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Now that I've played with the mino on my Norse team a few times, I've got a better idea of how to use them.
If you can manage to get them into the middle of a melee, they do work quite well. Positioning them can be tough, but this is where frenzy comes into play. If you plan ahead with your pushbacks, the mino will end up in a very inconvenient spot for your opponents. You can use this to force extra dodges or cause players to waste movement going around it. On offense, I like to to set up the WA next to the LOS opponent closest to the side I'm going to send my cage down. With frenzy to help with his positioning, he will usually tie up a few players for a turn or two, buying me some time. This works much better against slow, strong teams. Minos really seem pretty ineffective against teams with high AG and plenty of movement. Sure, tentacles would help immensely, but I'm not exactly holding my breath waiting for that to happen...
On defense, I just put him in the middle of the LOS and let him act as a roadblock/punching bag.
However, to sum things up, get an ogre or a troll instead. They are far more reliable overall, as well as being a lot better at taking hits. If my mino didn't already have block, I'd have tossed him long ago. As it is, I won't shed any tears when he does bite the dust. |
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DoubleSkulls
Joined: Oct 05, 2003
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Dec 15, 2003 - 14:47 |
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I'm quite fond of my WA (Mino on a Chaos team). His ability to always block and never lose his TZ is valuable. Frenzy means he's excellent at taking down other BGs and also for getting himself next to other members of the opponents team.
On offence I run the cage up around him so my opponent has to come close if they want to pressure the cage. On defence I don't normally deploy him on the LOS - a square behind so that he can hit someone who follows up.
In general if he isn't near anyone I'll try to move him early on in the turn - ideally next to someone I'm not going to hit. |
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Ian 'Double Skulls' Williams
Eucalyptus Bowl |
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Jugular
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Dec 15, 2003 - 15:44 |
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Doubleskulls you must have a lot of luck with moving ur Mino or your cage stands still for most of the drive cause whenever I need my mino to move he just stubbornly roars at the opposition cause as a wild animal obviously he is too scared to get any closer?!. Other BG's tend to have block. Blocking them with a new Mino or RO is foolish unless you have 2db and even then they regularly cause turnovers (or get stunned = out for the rest of the half). I said that I'd give the new WA rules achance and see how they fared. Without tentacles (which would be the weirdest thing I'd imagine a Mino to have fluffwise) they are just an unbalanced TR/STR booster. They have been changed from a BG that can help win or lose you a game dependant on the coaching to a BG that may as well not be at the game. I remember having to learn how to use a WA properly and even then there'd always be some way of causing them a problem. Now I'd have to be pretty much insane to use a WA as anything but a brick wall with loose cement. |
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Wraith
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Dec 15, 2003 - 17:09 |
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So far my Mino has been averaging about 18 blocks a match, since the change. He already had pro, stand firm and block though. With a bit of luck and some smart coaching my mino can be a real pain to my opponents. I hated the origional WA rules, without benefiting from assists, they were very easy to take out of a drive ( without using a few players just to protect him anyways ). WAs now atleast have a fair chance to do something if you use some nice tactics, I can't imagine my mino with tentacles, I think he'd be top notch.
The only thing I've noticed is now my mino seems to cause alot less CASs although he throws double the blocks. |
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Goff2000
Joined: Dec 02, 2003
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Dec 16, 2003 - 13:30 |
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After playing against Birka Storm's Minotaur in my first match, I invested in an Ogre instead when the time came. Htarn the Unstoppable frenzied his way through the line without knocking anyone down and was promptly surrounded by beastmen and knocked on his ass. I had him surrounded and tactically I should have put the boot in, but it was against a starting team and the ball was there to play, so I left him in my backfield and ran the ball. He then spent three turns on the ground doing nothing before standing up and doing nothing for the rest of the game. The coach has given him the Worst Minotaur Ever award for this display, but hopefully he will improve slightly now that he has pro.
Ogres all the way! |
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DoubleSkulls
Joined: Oct 05, 2003
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Dec 16, 2003 - 20:15 |
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| Jugular wrote: | | Doubleskulls you must have a lot of luck with moving ur Mino or your cage stands still for most of the drive cause whenever I need my mino to move he just stubbornly roars at the opposition cause as a wild animal obviously he is too scared to get any closer? |
Maybe I'm just positioning him - and my cage better. |
_________________
Ian 'Double Skulls' Williams
Eucalyptus Bowl |
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AcheronStyx
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Dec 16, 2003 - 21:14 |
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I have an entirely different opinion on WA and big guys in general. They are Great players ( all big guys ) that take alot of your opponents focus.... I.E. a big distraction because they are worried about what your big guy is gonna do next. So to this point, I use my mino as a distraction tool. My opponent throws 3 or 4 ( or more ) guys next to him to keep him tied up, but now that I do not HAVE to make a block/blitz with him anymore, i effectively tie up 3+ of his team. This strategy has worked very well for me so far, but as with all things it has its drawbacks. For example, if he gets knocked on his ass it is usually 2-3 turns before he gets up again, and double that if he gets stunned. However, since i do not depend on his performance, i can do without him for that time. |
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deathgerbil
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Dec 16, 2003 - 21:37 |
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personally, i don't find wild animals distractions for more than one turn. whenever i face one of them, I have 2 choices, - dodge or take the bugger out, simply knocking him on his ass and giving him a quick boot to the head. if the animal isn't injured or knocked out, then he's stunned, and any wild animal thats stunned is effectively out of the rest of the drive. having to roll for blitzes means your not any more of a big guy killer than any other big guy, and having to roll to even move means you can't depend on them for anything, - offence or defence. people just aren't going to move next to them on their turn, and being forced to have a 1/2 chance of moving next to any player, which can easily take a 3+ dodge to get away, are not qualities of a player i'd like on my team. and for all of you saying that its great watching other players take dodges to get away from the minotaur... an ogre or troll can do the exact same thing except they don't have to roll in order to move. |
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Matt_wyeth
Joined: Nov 29, 2003
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Dec 16, 2003 - 23:07 |
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actually the troll and ogre do have to roll to move they just do it more often because they fail on a 1. i think if you changed it so that the WA could move and blitz on a 3+ it would be fairer. this would make it somewhat worse than bonehead and slightly better than really stupid. or a no pick up the ball rule. |
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cethlion
Joined: Dec 30, 2003
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Dec 30, 2003 - 15:02 |
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I played my first game since they changed the WA rules, and on the kick off I got a pitch invasion and he got stunned. It was turn 7 before he got up. I think my mino is a waste of 110k . It would be better if the changed it so that you could block and blitz than they would be of more use |
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MickeX
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Dec 30, 2003 - 19:12 |
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Really, a lot of people judge the new WA too fast. The Mino on my CD team is doing a very good job on bothering people, take up space, forcing some dodges and getting the occasional KO or cas. I think Frenzy compensates for the WA rule against most teams. |
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cthol
Joined: Nov 10, 2003
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Jan 05, 2004 - 16:58 |
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well, i bought my mino before the new rules, but didn't actually play him until after they came in. so far he's got 9 CAS and Block & Pro. i definitely blitz with him at least once or twice a game, it's almost worth it for the surprise value:) i think i just have to figure out what i want to do with him, and how i should be playing him. I'm considering Shadowing as his next skill: should be hilarious... |
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Gnomes are trash
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