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Poll
What do you think of coaches who spectate their own matches?
Lame
26%
 26%  [ 12 ]
Perfectly OK
43%
 43%  [ 20 ]
Enough with the polls already. Sheesh.
21%
 21%  [ 10 ]
Who the hell cares?
8%
 8%  [ 4 ]
Total Votes : 46


oeuftete



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Dec 02, 2003 - 15:43 Reply with quote Back to top

So I suspect there are some coaches out there who spectate their own matches for whatever reason... insecurity about what other coaches are saying about them, looking for some in-game strategy tips, or maybe just cuz it might be fun.

What do people think about this?
DeMoorck



Joined: Aug 05, 2003

Post   Posted: Dec 02, 2003 - 16:18 Reply with quote Back to top

i wouldnt call it cheating but you could end up in a situation where you played some guy in "spec-mode" - giving advice to your opp. rather than the opponent you actually chose. This on the other hand could be a usefull tool for new coaches, a way for them to get the advice they so desperately need.

last but not least: If any player has specced his own match, and i was specating it too - then i would like to apologize for any remarks said Smile

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In the Kingdom of the Blind - the One-Eyed is King
psikobunny



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Dec 02, 2003 - 16:41 Reply with quote Back to top

You're only willing to apologize if the person "heard" you?

I admit I'm curious about what some specs might say, but I'm not so curious as to actually do anything about it. I'd like to think that whatever they said in spectator mode, they'd say to my face if I asked. And that's exactly what I would do after spectating a match. I am perfectly willing to tell someone; "that play on turn 6 was stupid, You should have..."
Mnemon



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Dec 02, 2003 - 17:27 Reply with quote Back to top

Touchy issue, can turn out to be close to cheating - I for once do discuss the current game situation with other spectators at the time ... if one of the players listens in he/she might get an advantage over the opponent not listening in due to that. If I'd notice anybody doing that I for sure would tell that person to stop spectating at once. Just as psiko said, if I really were asked to comment on a game, give tips or similar I would, but only after the game is over, not during it.

In the long run, as the client is not allowing the players to see spectator comments at all right now, I'd put that towards abusive behaviour, similar (but not quite equal to) having a spectator giving you tips via query on irc.

-Mnemon
SpIkEdDeAmOn



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Dec 02, 2003 - 18:47 Reply with quote Back to top

Well i often have a friend spectating and we share comments on MSN so its not really a bad thing cause people can talk bout games with out spectating them selves, or even if you have a friend in the same room can help out, its not cheating, its an assitant coach
oeuftete



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Dec 02, 2003 - 18:56 Reply with quote Back to top

SpIkEdDeAmOn wrote:
Well i often have a friend spectating and we share comments on MSN so its not really a bad thing cause people can talk bout games with out spectating them selves


By the same logic, killing someone with a steak knife is not really a bad thing since you could just as easily kill someone with a gun.

But I'm not necessarily saying this "assistant coaching" is bad...
SpIkEdDeAmOn



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Dec 02, 2003 - 19:01 Reply with quote Back to top

i was simply pointing out that its done by other methods as well, as that had not been raised yet, but still i see nothing wrong with a assitant coach, its not like they can fix your rolls can they, all they can really do is advise you on what to do in the end your in control and its you playing so this is an utterly pointless topic. Sorry but its not something that can be changed or stoped especially as there is no fault in it
SamSagace



Joined: Oct 24, 2003

Post   Posted: Dec 02, 2003 - 20:44 Reply with quote Back to top

As long as it do not slow the game, i don't care about it that the other player has a "helper". After all, if they're new to the game, they certainly can use the help. And also, as it's poosible to do it by MSN or any other chat, let it be poosbile directly be spectating the game... after all, those hints can be a flaw more than help.
Jahira



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Dec 02, 2003 - 21:19 Reply with quote Back to top

Well, i think it's realy nothing abusive at all. People can spec their own games if they like, and the advise thing, well, what about me helping a friend when sitting next to him in real life... no way i'm saying i'm a good coach, but if i help him, that makes his team better then he actually is ? so i think it's fair if they bother with it. they can take my advice if they like, and i wouldn't care much, and i wouldn't care if anyone got advice from anyone when i am playing em, i trust my own moves more then enough to think i can manage some spectators too Very Happy
psikobunny



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Dec 02, 2003 - 21:31 Reply with quote Back to top

I think a distinction needs to be made between regular games and tournament games. I might help out a learning coach, but in a tourney situation it's supposed to be the coaches skills winning him games. In my real life league we don't allow assistant coaching, unless its an advantage to both sides and known in advance. There's a lot to see on a BB board, and if I'm there pointing out strengths or weaknesses someon wouldn't see, then it becomes unfiar very quickly.

I will play agreed upon learning games, practice matches, or even go over replays with someone (watching game film). But I do my best not to advise anyone while they are playing and the other side doesnt know of it.
BunnyPuncher



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Dec 02, 2003 - 21:34 Reply with quote Back to top

I will give your opponents advice for $50 US / game... guaranteed win for u

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Mnemon



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Dec 02, 2003 - 22:13 Reply with quote Back to top

Might be me, but I just don't like the idea of assistant coaching - even for learning merits. If you want to teach somebody something do it while playing or after the match by going through the replay step by step. If I fail to see some strategic position of a player, or do a non-save move while there still would be better ones to do, then I don't see it - and I actually expect opponents to play all parts of their game (positioning, which action to do first etc.) on their own as well. When I agreed to play a match I agreed to a match vs. that coach and not against a coach and a number of her/his friends helping with game strategy. I don't even make a difference between tourney and open play there - for me not using "assistants" is part of playing "honest". Especially as I doubt anybody drawing on "assistants" ever informed the opposing coach about that around before or during the game.

You don't need any in game help to learn how to play if you use the facilities fumbbl offers - replays of your own and other coaches matches, as well as spectating games of more experienced coaches, and, most importantly, reading the LRB.

-Mnemon
Grod



Joined: Sep 30, 2003

Post   Posted: Dec 03, 2003 - 05:04 Reply with quote Back to top

Hey cool. I always wondered about speccing.

So if I am speccing a match, and type something in the Java bowl bar, the coaches that are playing can not hear me? But other people that are speccing can?

I'd be interested to have this clarified.

Cheers.

_________________
I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.

Oscar Wilde
Mr-Klipp



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Dec 03, 2003 - 05:18 Reply with quote Back to top

Grod wrote:

So if I am speccing a match, and type something in the Java bowl bar, the coaches that are playing can not hear me? But other people that are speccing can?


Exactly.

_________________
Looking to get your minis painted? Look no further.

The Finishing Touch
Twahn



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Dec 03, 2003 - 05:29 Reply with quote Back to top

Grod... Yes.

Damn! Way too slow Twahn. Can't believe it took me 11 minutes (!) to press 12 bloody keys!
Good thing I don't need the keyboard to play Bowl...
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