Ehlers
Joined: Jun 26, 2006
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 Posted:
Apr 11, 2009 - 14:12 |
 
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Why not start the request already 
With the current client it is possible to sneak buy a star into the current client or change roster or join with a TV/TS team of same race. Something that not all coaches take into account when challenge other players. And something that really can make people angry.
So I suggest that you will have a prescreen that shows the two teams connected to the game and that both coaches then agree to that this is the two teams that are going for the match. Should not be difficult to code at all.
This will clear any way of changing the roster before the game begin.
So no sneak buy.
No changing in values (TV/TS) etc.
No joining with a different team within the range
In real life open enviroment, you would be able to decliene the offer. On fumbbl it is words against words of what game was offered and not offered.
Just a small request
/Ehlers |
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Astarael
Joined: Aug 14, 2005
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Apr 11, 2009 - 14:14 |
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Wow, so wrong.
In a real life game you agree to the game then part of the pre-match sequence is the hiring of stars. So if they were to fix this they would have to add a prematch part where you COULD hire after the match was agreed and locked in. |
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Oh my. |
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Ehlers
Joined: Jun 26, 2006
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Apr 11, 2009 - 14:30 |
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I am not only talking about stars Astarael.
But I can see that my group played differently with the pre-match. My mistake, but still you are not able to retire or buy new roster players to your team exept Mercenaries in the pre-match face. Which you are now.
So still a request that I would very much see.
So I would like to see the client handle all pre-match sequences then. |
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BroadAsImLong
Joined: Mar 21, 2008
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Apr 11, 2009 - 16:01 |
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well in lrb5 with inducements, i believe it has to. so with it being needed for lrb5, wouldn't be an issue to do something similar for lrb4 and have the correct pre-match sequence i guess.
Who knows tho what will happen on a program we dont have our hands on. Nor any info on what features it does have. Little premature maybe?
Broad |
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BiggieB
Joined: Feb 19, 2005
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Apr 11, 2009 - 16:31 |
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Hey guys lets wait to see what the client looks like before we start the feature requests |
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Ehlers
Joined: Jun 26, 2006
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| Posted:
Apr 11, 2009 - 16:32 |
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| LRB5 Pre-match sequence wrote: |
1. Roll on Weather table
2. Transfer Gold from Treasury to Petty Cash
3. Take Inducements
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All I am asking is a pre-agreement screen where you can check the teams roster and then each coach has to press a "yes" or "no" button to go to Pre-match sequence.
Why I am asking this is, that retirement of a player is not included in the pre-match sequence.
I have made a following example. You can agree to or not if it is worth having the Goblin player I have made as example, but that is to show why I am asking this.
I will assume that both coaches does not have any gold to spend.
Orc TV 201 vs Chaos TV 200 (Underdog)
Before joining the match, the orc coach retire this player:
Goblin 6 2 3 7 Dodge, Right Stuff, Stunty, Block, +st, -st
Goblin (40k gold) + Block (30k gold) + ST (50 gold) = 120k gold
So now the TV will look like this (and I will assume that the Chaos coach did not triple check the other coach roster):
Orc TV 181 (underdog) vs Chaos TV 200
Now due to the drop in TV, the underdog has 190k gold to spend on Inducements.
| 1 example wrote: |
Ugroth Bolgrot 5 3 3 9 Loner, Chainsaw, No Hands, Secret weapon
Cost 70k gold
1 bribe
Cost 10k gold
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Now correct me if I am wrong in my calculations.
This was just a quick view with no meta gaming in mind.
And I am sure of that other people will be able to do this better then that I have just did. It is not the first time that people have tried to find wholes in the system, so why not just fix this problem from start. |
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BadMrMojo
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Apr 12, 2009 - 03:59 |
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You remembered the pre-match sequence but not the post-match sequence.
| LRB Post-Match Sequence wrote: |
1. Improvement Rolls
2. Update Team Roster
...
2. Update Team Roster
...
5. Each coach must decide if they wish to spend any gold in
the team treasury to buy new players and coaching staff for
their team, and/or let go (i.e. fire) any team re-rolls, players,
or coaching staff from their team who are no longer wanted... |
So hiring and firing of journeymen and permanent players is done before you start the next match while stars and mercenaries are hired during the pre-match phase. The orc team cannot legally fire the goblin in your example, once he has connected to the game.
Post-match phase, on FUMBBL, typically lasts the entire time until the game is started. This is no different than the current TR/handicap setup currently and is not an actual change to the way FUMBBL works at the moment, really. |
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Ta-Ouch! of BloodBowl
Condensed Guide for Newbies |
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shadow46x2
Joined: Nov 22, 2003
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Apr 12, 2009 - 05:57 |
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or you could...
you know...
pay attention to your opponent's roster and look for roster changing potential...
--j
ps...joining a match with a different team is irrelevant, seeing as how coaches are not obligated to play the match, since they didn't agree to playing an entirely different team |
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| origami wrote: | | There is no god but Nuffle, and Shadow is his prophet. |
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Ehlers
Joined: Jun 26, 2006
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| Posted:
Apr 12, 2009 - 10:54 |
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@BadMrMojo
As I started it is before joining the match he retire the player.
If the client handle the whole process of post-match sequence, then it would not be possible. But as how things work now, then you buy and retire players on fumbbl site. So my point is still valied.
@shadow46x2
Yes you are right. But it should be simple to code, so why not simple have it instead of having to keep on checking the roster?
And the point about joining with a different team, then it is words against words. And if someone really wanted to be an idiot, he could go and do it. Still words against words. And could claim that the other coach got chicken and did not want the game the both had said to on mIRC.
Yes maybe an extreme. but still possible. But ofcause I dont know how the admin would handle such a case. Maybe not seen yet? |
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BadMrMojo
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Apr 13, 2009 - 02:58 |
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| Ehlers wrote: | @BadMrMojo
As I started it is before joining the match he retire the player.
If the client handle the whole process of post-match sequence, then it would not be possible. But as how things work now, then you buy and retire players on fumbbl site. So my point is still valied. |
This is true. Your point is just as valid as it is currently under LRB 4 rules. I'm not sure if it is a huge difference, however.
In practice, Inducements generally aren't as good as the equivalent cost in permanent players. There are exceptions - such as choosing a particularly well-suited star or something - but most of the time you're better off with your permanent team fixtures than dumping them for inducements. This is especially true in LRB 5.b or LRB 6 (whatever you want to call it) in which the prices of stars were adjusted - most notably the increased cost of chainsaws.
The one way I can think of to change things would be on the FUMBBL site, rather than in the client. Christer would have to add an additional step of declaring your team as being ready for the next match. You won't be able to start a game with your team until you've clicked a button saying that you are done with the post-game phase.
This is a UI issue for Christer and site users to determine if adding an extra step to finding a game is worthwhile. I don't quite agree that the trade-off is worth it, however, and I don't see how the proposed client is any different than the current setup which has worked adequately on the site all this time (granted, with different handicap options). |
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Ta-Ouch! of BloodBowl
Condensed Guide for Newbies |
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Severedunit
Joined: Oct 08, 2005
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Apr 13, 2009 - 03:19 |
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How often does this actually happen? And like Shadow46x2 said, if I agree to play a HE team and Orcs show up, we've either had a misunderstanding and we start again with the correct teams or we simply don't play and a admin gets a quick pm from me to cover my a**. I haven't played too many games(120) but have never had this problem and as far as adding another step, I'd rather leave things along as I sometimes like to sit on decisions for a while and would not like to be forced to "hurry up". I don't know jack about LRB5 so I can't speak to that. |
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pythrr
Joined: Mar 07, 2006
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Apr 13, 2009 - 03:51 |
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jesus (since it's easter), what a pointless whine |
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SillySod
Joined: Oct 10, 2006
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Apr 13, 2009 - 04:01 |
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As far as I can see Ehlers is just asking for a stage where you click "yes, these are the teams I agreed to play"... this would be pretty similar to the "yes, that is my username/password" stage in the current client, heck it could even be integrated into the same box. I doubt this is a crucial feature but it might just help resolve the occasional dispute |
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Putting the "eh?" back into Sexeh.
"There are those to whom knowledge is a shield. There are those to whom it is a weapon. Neither view is balanced." |
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Kalimar
Joined: Sep 22, 2006
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Apr 13, 2009 - 07:34 |
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To perhaps end this discussion prematurely - here is what I have already planned on implementing:
The inducement phase is done within the client. First teams have to pay their upkeep (spiraling expenses) which is automatically deducted from their treasury.
Then coaches may transfer god from their treasury to their petty cash, starting with the team that has the higher Teamvalue.
Then comes the purchasing of inducements with the gold you get from the difference in team value as well as the petty cash you have available. The superior opponent has to choose first, the underdog gets to see the choices the superior team made when choosing himself.
All done with dialogs in the client and all with a standard 4 minute time limit.
The post-match game sequence (hiring of new players) stays with Fumbbl, just as it is now. |
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Ehlers
Joined: Jun 26, 2006
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| Posted:
Apr 13, 2009 - 11:30 |
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| pythrr wrote: | | jesus (since it's easter), what a pointless whine |
If that is how you see it, then that is fair.
| SillySod wrote: | | As far as I can see Ehlers is just asking for a stage where you click "yes, these are the teams I agreed to play"... this would be pretty similar to the "yes, that is my username/password" stage in the current client, heck it could even be integrated into the same box. I doubt this is a crucial feature but it might just help resolve the occasional dispute |
Thank you. That is exactly just what I would like to be added.
| BadMrMojo wrote: |
In practice, Inducements generally aren't as good as the equivalent cost in permanent players. There are exceptions - such as choosing a particularly well-suited star or something - but most of the time you're better off with your permanent team fixtures than dumping them for inducements. This is especially true in LRB 5.b or LRB 6 (whatever you want to call it) in which the prices of stars were adjusted - most notably the increased cost of chainsaws. |
The higher the base cost of your player, the more difficult I see it to trade for an equal star.
| example 2 wrote: |
Goblin Team
Fanatic (70k) + Normal skill (20k) = 90k
He then gets a niggle or other stats decrease (maybe -str), so you decide to retire him.
But why not just get a new star fanatic for the next match only?
Fungus the Loon
Cost 80k
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| example 3 wrote: |
Lizardman
Skink (60k) + Normal skill (20k) = 80k
He then gets a niggle or other stats decrease, so you decide to retire him.
But why not just get a star with chainsaw for the next match only?
Helmut Wulf 6338 Loner, Chainsaw, No Hands, Secret Weapon, Stand Firm
Cost 80K
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Yes both players gets the loner skill, but in the Lizardman case and if the Lizardman player has enough Skinks. Then I would say it is good trade off, I would make anytime if possible assuming that TV are equal or your opponent has a bigger TV then you.
@Kalimar
Sorry but that wont stop people from doing this.
So to turn back to SillySod post, then it is to stop the occasional dispute.
Does this happen often, no. But that is because lrb4 handicaps can be soo random. Here you will know exactly what you will get by being a right bastard.
So would this increase in retiring right before a match and hope the other coach does not keep pressing F5? I dont know, but I can sure see that it could become a problem. |
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