CircularLogic
Joined: Aug 22, 2003
|
 Posted:
Apr 27, 2009 - 14:43 |
 
|
There was an attempt with this group to bundle coaches willing to help, grouping them into specific topics, so that a new coach - or just any coach wishing to improve - could look up what was offered and approach the appropriate teacher with questions and/or requests for games.
I joined over a year ago and have been approached in person exactly once - for Lizzie advise. This might be, because my topics are uninteresting. It might also be, because new coaches never knew about the group. Even if they knew, I`m not sure if some topics/instructors weren`t distracting them.
The idea in itself is a good one though. Let experienced coaches volunteer and put them on a list akin to that group (or take over the group?). Every volunteer (and I`d sign up right away) should be able to teach the basics of client handling, blocking etc. - on top of that each one could specify:
- Help with certain races that they are using on a frequent basis
- Help with certain aspects of tactics (like crowding, clock control or one-turning) - one should stay serious there and avoid topics like 'Funny things'
- If they are willing to tutor coaches if desired. Tutoring would involve alot of IRC chat, either while the student is playing and the tutor watching or while both are reviewing a match played by the student. I see this as the best way of improving skills, in my experience.
So basically you create a similar group with a similar table. Put this group in every newcomes face in multiple ways. For example when he creates a [A] team he is redirected to this group instead of his overview page. Or when someone joins and agrees to the site rules, he is directed to the group. Or the link to this group is in every [A] matchreport or automatically in every [A] teambio. Missing this link should be something that is impossible.
Oh.. and maybe it would be great, if coaches in this group could be sorted according to the amount of students/time they have. So that I can say, that if I`m swamped at RL for a time, I get sorted to the bottom of the group, so that people looking for general advise are asking someone else first.
This group of coaches could also be separate from the #academy crowd that hangs around in the channel and plays [A] games with new comers, meaning that being in that group doesn`t mean one has to hang around in the channel and vice versa.
As a final point, I want to agree with Mithrilpoint - Coaches praying on noobs to destroy their teams (we all know who I`m getting at) should be considered as breaking the rules of [A] division and dealt with accordingly (blocked account for a week sounds good to me).
Edit in respondse to Koadah:
People with goof teams and new coaches wanting to play new coaches could still make up the regular [A] crowd that provides training opportunities for new coaches. |
|
|
westerner
Joined: Jul 02, 2008
|
| Posted:
Apr 27, 2009 - 15:18 |
|
Some of the topics on the list Circ referenced might be of interest to non-noobs as well looking to improve specific aspects of their game. For example, crowdpushing and anti-stalling are two areas that I would be glad of some practice. |
_________________
\x/es |
|
BiggieB
Joined: Feb 19, 2005
|
| Posted:
Apr 27, 2009 - 18:15 |
|
Nice points guys. Keep the good ideas coming! I like how the thread is filled with positivity and useful ideas (with the expection of rijs throw it out the window). Currently I am looking for more good ideas and people who are willing to help out in any way shape or form. The vision is to have a set of regulars in A voiced so they are easy to distinguish and are givinig good advice. I will also try to distill all the great (and not so great ideas) and rebuild and freshen up the strategy part of the wiki and add a Academy Portal sort of like the TNT, with possibly a monthly article. Now all this require contribution from you guys. I will also review the division specific rules for the division in order to make it possible to punish people that use the division for something else then its intended purposes. But all this will take time. All help and ideas are very welcome!
/B |
|
|
shadow46x2
Joined: Nov 22, 2003
|
| Posted:
Apr 27, 2009 - 18:42 |
|
| Mithrilpoint wrote: | 3. Fumbbl regulars experimenting with new races, troll-less goblins, all linemen norse etc.
To put it bluntly, coaches 3 and 4 are not welcome in my idea of an academy division. The academy are there to teach new coaches the core rules of the game, assists, passing, planning ahead, fouling, skill synergies, doing safe moves first - all that jazz. Simply a learning division with X lessons (games) in which the teacher should focus on whichever lesson the new coach needs or asks for. Anyone who wants to be a teacher can be one provided that you are there for the right reasons and have some experience - it is not rocket science.
|
uh....
how do you figure?
i've played an ogre team 1 time...hence, the race is new to me, and i don't know the tactics of managing the team...why shouldn't i be allowed to play a few games in academy to learn the basics?...just because i've played over 1000 games, why shouldn't i be allowed to use academy for the reason it's there?...to learn the game....
granted, i'm only learning one facet of the game, but i'm still learning something new....
to say that people shouldn't be allowed to use the division to learn new ways to play the game, is a little overzealous don't you think?...
--j |
_________________
| origami wrote: | | There is no god but Nuffle, and Shadow is his prophet. |
  |
|
maysrill
Joined: Dec 29, 2008
|
| Posted:
Apr 27, 2009 - 18:43 |
|
I know it may not be much, but in your profile maybe under the "awards" there could be a progression for "Academy Trainer" based on number of games played vs. CR150 coaches in [A]. There may be the odd tool here and there that would enjoy beating up the new guys, but the only real reason to play all those [A] games is to teach. The awards thing could be a sort of public service merit badge.
Another thought is that each Academy team has a "reset" option, which will put it back to the state when you submitted it for approval. You'd have the option of starting over exactly, or making tweaks before re-submitting it. This could be a help for new players who royally screwed up their start but don't want a whole new team (with naming new players and so forth) and also make a quick reset button for the teacher coaches so they don't have a wasteland of bloated [A] teams to retire.
Lastly, cut back the number of races available in [A]. Some just aren't helpful for new players. Reinforce the basics and move to [R] for the gizmos. A basic implementation of this would just be getting rid of vampires, ogres, goblins and halfings. Though experienced players can make them work, they are too hard/frustrating for new players. An agressive implementation would cut [A] back to something like: Orcs, Humans, High Elves, Undead. Tweak that list if you want, but the idea being to give players a couple basic archetypes to choose from and that's it (in my example the archetypes would be basher, balanced, baller, apo-less). |
|
|
BroadAsImLong
Joined: Mar 21, 2008
|
| Posted:
Apr 27, 2009 - 18:56 |
|
i also believe being able to transfer out teams is a bad thing. the environment should be for learning the game, not something to do to level up your 'league' team easily. because there will always be people who find the shortest point between A and B. the 'reward' for playing is teaching new people how to play imho.
the 175 (make it like a minors cap etc) tr increase could be good, but really the emphasis should be on learning the basics. Learning how to play tr150+ games and how to develop a team are at a higher level i believe, though of course A could cater for that too. Im of two minds on this one 
the non-progressive teams for teachers would be a good idea but could be messy for site organistion i think. If say someone becomes a registered "teacher" in A then they could be allowed the effort of non-progressive teams. Whilst others who help out in game time less, have to make do with the normal run of things.
I would be very happy to help out, and have some experience in training and teaching (and a very little in bb  ). 2hours helping someone learn more of the game during a game, and then 1 year later they come back to rip 16 players on one of Texans majors teams would be worth it in my eyes
Broad
p.s. my surname isn't generalization |
|
|
BroadAsImLong
Joined: Mar 21, 2008
|
| Posted:
Apr 27, 2009 - 19:12 |
|
| shadow46x2 wrote: |
to say that people shouldn't be allowed to use the division to learn new ways to play the game, is a little overzealous don't you think?...
--j |
no. imho. but it depends on the emphasis or goal of the division. Is it there for everyone to learn anything? Or is it for new people to learn the basics, then they can progress onwards and upwards.
And im sure shadow that you could find a friend, or a cherry, to play your ogres in R. Since you aren't new to the site or the game. |
|
|
shadow46x2
Joined: Nov 22, 2003
|
| Posted:
Apr 27, 2009 - 19:32 |
|
| BroadAsImLong wrote: | | shadow46x2 wrote: |
to say that people shouldn't be allowed to use the division to learn new ways to play the game, is a little overzealous don't you think?...
--j |
no. imho. but it depends on the emphasis or goal of the division. Is it there for everyone to learn anything? Or is it for new people to learn the basics, then they can progress onwards and upwards.
And im sure shadow that you could find a friend, or a cherry, to play your ogres in R. Since you aren't new to the site or the game. |
why though?
by learning new tactics in academy, i would be achieving multiple goals...
i would be taking my learning time to the appropriate division, and refraining from learning time in what is proposed as a competitive division....
i am encouraging traffic in the division...
also, i could use that time to help people who are new to the game, by giving them pointers while learning myself....
how is any of that bad?
--j |
_________________
| origami wrote: | | There is no god but Nuffle, and Shadow is his prophet. |
|
|
CircularLogic
Joined: Aug 22, 2003
|
| Posted:
Apr 27, 2009 - 20:52 |
|
how much of value is it, to learn how to beat someone that is making his potentially first game of bloodbowl. That will teach you to use your ogres right?
So in order to really learn stuff, you would have to play an experienced coach that is a teacher and until we have tons of those, you`ll be competing for their time with true rookies. Instead, why not use [U] as your training ground? You`d still refrain from using a compeitive division to learn and would encourage traffic in a near-dead division. You might even learn MORE, as you are not beating noobs. |
|
|
Roseph
Joined: Oct 19, 2006
|
| Posted:
Apr 27, 2009 - 21:18 |
|
Well I for one am happy to see coaches throwing down ideas. I have been working on a group http://fumbbl.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=15940&start=15&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight= for a bit and am happy that Biggie has taken control of A. Any help you need Biggie just ask.
Now as to more experienced coaches playing new teams in A to test them out or limiting the amount of races allowed I have this to say. Let the coaches play in A IF they are willing to help out and give pointers to new guys. Just because they are experienced in BloodBowl doesnt mean they are experienced in all the races. I think that exposure to all races and styles is key to the development of new coaches. How many new coaches have been challenged by flings or gobbos in R and had their team destroyed because they had NO CLUE as to what the little buggers can do. All they seen was low av low str small guys.
Now to address the issue of Shadow in A. I would love to see shadow play in A more. As a coach, he is a solid tactician that plays a tough game. As to him looking for easy wins, one of the guys that helped and still helps me ALOT in this game is Shadow. I have seen him play games with new coaches and take time to explain why what they are doing is wrong or what they can do better. Just because he has a low tolerance for what he considers stupidity does not mean he isnt able and willing to help. I can think of FAR worse coaches to learn from.
Ro |
|
|
Synn
Joined: Dec 13, 2004
|
| Posted:
Apr 27, 2009 - 21:22 |
|
Usually shadow in A involves spooneh or meech.
Just throwing that out there.
__Synn |
|
|
CircularLogic
Joined: Aug 22, 2003
|
| Posted:
Apr 27, 2009 - 21:29 |
|
For the record: I never tried to imply, that shadow was out there picking noobs in A. |
|
|
Mithrilpoint
Joined: Mar 16, 2004
|
| Posted:
Apr 27, 2009 - 21:31 |
|
Maybe i wasn't clear. I am not saying that it is bad that fumbbl regulars use the academy as a way to learn new races. I just don't see it as the function of the academy and because of that no reason to have it there. More can be achieved if one focuses on the idea and vision for the division. People who know the basic rules of the game and rules of the site are ready to go forth and conquer other divisions. I differentiate strongly between learning to play the game (object of the academy) and learning to play different races who are subject to the same core rules. Imo it is the core rules we should be focusing on in the academy division, not the more complex things...for starters that is. |
_________________
Stop the Whining! |
|
G_Force
Joined: Aug 19, 2004
|
| Posted:
Apr 27, 2009 - 21:36 |
|
As an alternative to non progression teams or additional slots for teachers how about a pool of [A] (like the tourney filler goblins) that "approved teachers" can access.
the thinking behind this is not only might a new player want to know how to cage with khemri but they may need to improve on playing against AG4 or playing against ST5 like ogres or dealing with flings/goblins (the fouling little fellas). it would be restrictive for them to possibly expect such games without a pool as not all "teachers" can be expected have run a suitable team of each race.
Academy should be open to all as the learning resource it is intended to be. playing a new race or style of race without impacting the main divisions (or waiting months for a U game) then this is the place. as a seasoned coach you would have the choice to play with a (i hate the term tbh) n00b and maybe help them along or request a game with a "teacher" who may actually have some insight into playing the race you are testing. |
_________________
D&D
Grudge League
World Cup |
|
EnglishJake
Joined: Apr 06, 2007
|
| Posted:
Apr 27, 2009 - 22:01 |
|
| Mithrilpoint wrote: | Congratulations Biggie with your new powers .
I would like to re-think the concept of the academy division. Currently i think there are 4 kinds of coaches playing there:
1. FUMBBL regulars with a desire to teach bloodbowl-fu to new coaches
2. New coaches with a desire to learn Blodbowl-fu
3. Fumbbl regulars experimenting with new races, troll-less goblins, all linemen norse etc.
4. The types of http://fumbbl.com/~BLOODKILLERMACHO playing to do what those types do.
Mithrilpoint |
Errr, besides the point, but how did Bloodkillermacho get a beastman with Wild Animal? http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=player&player_id=436160 |
|
|
|
|
| |
Conceding v Goblins/...
Search
