| Poll |
| What do you think about these tournament ideas? |
| Yes! Please implement them right away! I'm in! |
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38% |
[ 24 ] |
| Yes...I like the format but not the prizes. |
|
25% |
[ 16 ] |
| Yes...but with some modification (specify please) |
|
6% |
[ 4 ] |
| Yes...but just to shut the B coaches up, I'm out. |
|
3% |
[ 2 ] |
| No. I want a B tournament, but not at all like this. |
|
7% |
[ 5 ] |
| No. I don't want to see tournaments in B. |
|
11% |
[ 7 ] |
| I don't care/don't play in B at all. |
|
7% |
[ 5 ] |
|
| Total Votes : 63 |
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CorporateSlave3
Joined: Feb 07, 2004
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 Posted:
Jul 10, 2009 - 04:28 |
 
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I know there is already a BlackBox Tournaments thread, but I've also been told that in order to even consider an idea for a tournament in B, certain moderators would need to find over 3 responses in favor of a single idea.
I've proposed a couple of tournaments that, while some were uneasy with the prizes, most people agreed they liked the basic format. However, despite how many people have said they liked it in IRC, few bothered to respond in the actual forum thread, so the evidence has been lacking.
So, I thought I'd try a poll based on my ideas, and hope that maybe a vote in support might actually get a BlackBox tournament up and running sooner rather than later...
So, the following are my two tournament ideas for the Tzeench Challenge and the Bright Crusader's Cup. Please vote, and if you have any input you think would help make them better, please post it! Thanks everybody! |
_________________
***Did you know? 42.7% of all statistics are made up on the spot? |
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CorporateSlave3
Joined: Feb 07, 2004
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| Posted:
Jul 10, 2009 - 04:29 |
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The Bright Crusader’s Cup
The Bright Crusaders have been a mainstay of the Blood Bowl tabloids for many years. Always standing out as, perhaps the last, bastion of dignity, honor, and fairness on the Blood Bowl pitch. Indeed, their sterling reputation as the most honest, fair, and honorable team to ever play the sport has been their only consolation in the face of a truly hideous losing record, season after season.
They have stalwartly stood against miserably cheating goblins sneaking all manner of weapons onto the pitch, treacherous dark elves using every dirty trick in the book, even sneaky hobgoblins furtively clustering around downed players when the referee wasn’t looking, seeking to put a hard kick or two into their helpless opponent’s body…all the while refusing to respond in kind. Refusing to break their unique code of honor! Never once called on a foul! Never once called for Illegal Procedure! Never once bribing a referee! (And only once winning a match – by default when the opposing troll ate an entire team of goblins right before kickoff!)
One day, the Bright Crusader’s team captain heard of a magical new device being used in some leagues to assist in matching teams up with opponents of similar ability in order to promote the most exciting matches possible. With this magical ‘black box’ a team could enter its name and roster, and the box would instantly calculate which team would best equal another similarly submitted team in ability and prowess, matching them for a game that was certain to please the fans!
It gave the captain an idea. Perhaps there was no way to ever enforce their code upon the throngs of cheating Blood Bowl teams, all willing to do anything to win. But now, it was within their grasp to at least ensure that teams would meet each other on a level playing field – even if that field was laden with traps, magic, and weapons that were clearly forbidden by the Law of Nuffle. At least the days of the Chaos All Stars constantly baiting newly franchised human teams with a thin roster, and few players with more than a hair or two on their chin into a match that inevitably ended in slaughter would be over.
He organized his men, and together they launched the Bright Crusader’s Cup. The black box would be used to ensure that every round of the tournament would be as fair as magically possible…and when the champions would eventually be crowned, the Bright Crusader’s team captain himself would join them for the coming season, to honor those who had won the most fair and square tournament he could figure out how to offer, after which he would retire forever from Blood Bowl and dedicate his life (if he still had one) to becoming the best referee he possibly could.
Tournament structure:
Open KO format tournament, with no qualifying rounds – however, teams must be ‘active’ – they must have played at least one (or two?) match in the week preceding the initial seeding. The Bright Crusaders view hiding out with a team right up until entry (in order to protect the team’s roster) ‘unsportsmanlike’ and will deny any such teams entry if at all possible.
Any TR/TS is allowed to enter, although teams will be knocked off the bottom of the TR/TS scale in order to make an even number compatible with a KO format bracket (hopefully this will help avoid too mismatched a final). Teams will be checked for the active requirement BEFORE any teams are eliminated due to the needs of the KO bracket.
The initial draw will be made using by feeding all teams into the black box scheduler, which will make the best TR/TS matches it can.
Every round thereafter will be determined after the round before it is completed by again entering all teams that remain into the black box scheduler, as opposed to proceeding down a traditional KO tournament bracket.
Standard timeframes of 1 week per round to play scheduled matches will apply.
Only the final will be arranged without use of the black box.
Tournament Prizes:
The prize will be +2d6 K winnings, +d6 FF, and a Bright Crusader Team Captain added to the team roster until killed, retired, or the tournament begins the following year.
The Bright Crusader Team Captain will have the following stats and skills:
6 4 3 8 Stand Firm, Leader (I’ll leave it to someone else competent in such things to give me a fair price/team strength value)
This player can gain SPP’s a normal, and can also be killed, injured, and age per the current ruleset. His stats are reset for the next Bright Crusader’s Cup, as he is determined to have retired (if he was alive) and another member of the Bright Crusaders will have been elected captain to replace him. |
_________________
***Did you know? 42.7% of all statistics are made up on the spot? |
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CorporateSlave3
Joined: Feb 07, 2004
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| Posted:
Jul 10, 2009 - 04:29 |
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Tzeench Challenge
For years, the Lord of Change had watched his followers play the sport of Blood Bowl with only halfhearted enthusiasm. Although there was a certain chaos to the activity on the pitch, the rigid rules structure of the pagan god Nuffle was tiresome, even more so the strict adherence to procedure and protocol that accompanied most of the sport’s most celebrated tournaments.
One day, Tzeench took note of a new sub-division within the sporting world of Blood Bowl. While the game play was essentially the same, these new coaches simply threw their team’s name into a magical black box, which would then regularly and randomly pair up teams and force them to play against each other! Tzeench looked upon this new system with renewed interest, and finally decided to mobilize his followers to create a grand tournament of Blood Bowl in his name…
The Tzeench Challenge is played in a stadium that issues forth from the vortex of the warp, changing its location after every match is played. It’s match structure uses the magical black box to determine opponents. However, following every round of eliminations, the teams are again scrambled into the black box, ensuring that no one knows who will be playing who at any given point – until the entrance to the Tzeench Challenge stadium appears before them in a swirl of chaotic magic, becoming them to enter and face their new opponents…
Furthermore, Tzeench decided on a particularly interesting manner of rewarding the champions of his tournament…he would bless the team with ever shifting gifts – no player would ever know for certain what power the chaos god might bestow them for the upcoming match, or if he would bestow upon them any gift at all. Indeed, so many mortals seemed utterly unable to appreciate and fully utilize the gifts he did give…
Tournament structure:
Open KO format tournament, with no qualifying rounds (this could be implemented in the future if demand for slots grows very large, but given the lack of active Blackbox coaches, it probably won’t be necessary to begin with)
Any TR/TS is allowed to enter, although teams will be knocked off the bottom of the TR/TS scale in order to make an even number compatible with a KO format bracket (hopefully this will help avoid too mismatched a final).
EDIT: Rethinking this, perhaps teams should be knocked off alternately from the top AND bottom in order to make an even number for a KO bracket...any thoughts?
The initial draw will be made using by feeding all teams into the black box scheduler, which will make the best TR/TS matches it can.
Every round thereafter will be determined after the round before it is completed by again entering all teams that remain into the black box scheduler, as opposed to proceeding down a traditional KO tournament bracket. This should help offset problems with lower TR/TS teams having to face TR/TS tourney prepped giants as they might have to in [R], creating an unfair advantage for the bigger teams who get to face a non-threatening opponent. It should also help said lower TR/TS teams to actually advance in the tournament.
Standard timeframes of 1 week per round to play scheduled matches will apply. (this may necessitate a small change to the way the scheduler works, allowing a team to be scheduled without making all other Blackbox teams ineligible to play normal matches)
Obviously, only the final will be arranged without use of the black box.
Tournament Prizes:
The prize will be 50K winnings, +1 FF, three random mutations and one random negative trait. These prizes will be awarded randomly to the winning team rather than specific players on the winning team as has been done in the past with tournaments like the Warpstone Open.
They way this will work will be similar to the Fumbbl birthday random mutations…they will be randomly chosen and randomly reassigned to three players on the winning team separately for each match (for the following year, or other specified time frame). (Claw, Spikes, Extra Arms, Prehensile Tail, Foul Appearance, Tentacles, Two Heads)
In order to offset the advantage of it being impossible for the prize players to ever be ‘killed’ (as the mutations belong to the team – there will always be 3 of them each game, regardless of if a player with a mutation is killed in a previous match), there will also be one random negative trait given out along with the mutations each match…(Bone Head, Really Stupid, Wild Animal, OFAB) not all mortals can make effective use of the gifts the chaos gods may have to offer… |
_________________
***Did you know? 42.7% of all statistics are made up on the spot? |
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Pjj
Joined: Oct 09, 2008
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| Posted:
Jul 10, 2009 - 07:24 |
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I wholeheartedly support both your tournament proposals, with prizes, but I think the prizes themselves could use some tweaking (though I agree in principle). |
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BillBrasky
Joined: Feb 15, 2005
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| Posted:
Jul 10, 2009 - 07:36 |
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Good Work CS3.
I'm in all the way! |
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Snappy_Dresser
Joined: Feb 11, 2005
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| Posted:
Jul 10, 2009 - 07:50 |
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love the format, am leery about the prize (though it's not a deal breaker), but I think you have a snowball's chance of getting this through.
I wish you luck, though.
love the fluff too |
_________________
<PurpleChest> the way it splooshed got me so excited
"I hear that shadow is a douchebag"
-Mr Foulscumm |
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Rijssiej
Joined: Jan 04, 2005
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| Posted:
Jul 10, 2009 - 10:03 |
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I like the ideas but I am not too sure about the format.
The problems I see with the format:
- This way of scheduling would make the final much less interesting as the rest of the tourney while the final should be the most interesting game of the tourney.
- It will be impossible to anticipate availability to play games as you can't play ahead in this format (matches will be scheduled after all games are played).
- The teams must be frozen after the draw is made each round as not doing this would favor having cash and buying stars after the draw to imbalance the matchups. This means that one can't prepare their team vs a specific opponent (like getting a wiz vs dwarfs) unless one spends time checking all the teams and predict what the opponent might be and prepare for playing against that. This means that coaches that spend a lot of time checking all the teams and predicting the matchups get an advantage over coaches that don't. I don't think this should be part of playing in a tournament.
For this reasons I would prefer to use the tried and tested ranked way of scheduling the tournaments. |
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On1
Joined: Jul 12, 2004
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| Posted:
Jul 10, 2009 - 10:09 |
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| Rijssiej wrote: | I like the ideas but I am not too sure about the format.
The problems I see with the format:
- This way of scheduling would make the final much less interesting as the rest of the tourney while the final should be the most interesting game of the tourney.
- It will be impossible to anticipate availability to play games as you can't play ahead in this format (matches will be scheduled after all games are played).
- The teams must be frozen after the draw is made each round as not doing this would favor having cash and buying stars after the draw to imbalance the matchups. This means that one can't prepare their team vs a specific opponent (like getting a wiz vs dwarfs) unless one spends time checking all the teams and predict what the opponent might be and prepare for playing against that. This means that coaches that spend a lot of time checking all the teams and predicting the matchups get an advantage over coaches that don't. I don't think this should be part of playing in a tournament.
For this reasons I would prefer to use the tried and tested ranked way of scheduling the tournaments. |
You have a point there. |
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Snappy_Dresser
Joined: Feb 11, 2005
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| Posted:
Jul 10, 2009 - 10:36 |
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As opposed to the ridiculous lengths coaches go to regularly in Ranked to groom their teams? I'm sorry. Your scenarios seems implausible. Especially if the teams aren't revealed until the first matchup is posted.
However, your point about playing ahead is well made. I'll think on it (and then someone smarter than me will propose a solution). |
_________________
<PurpleChest> the way it splooshed got me so excited
"I hear that shadow is a douchebag"
-Mr Foulscumm |
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freak_in_a_frock
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jul 10, 2009 - 10:43 |
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I do agree that the final could end up being less attractive than the heats, but without trying it out it'll be hard to see if this will be the case. It all depends really on how close the grouping of TS is when the tournement starts. One answer would be to lower the compatibilty rating (the @965 bit) so that the top 2 teams are less likely to have to play each other every round.
As to the problems with freezing the teams after the draw, i think it would add an interesting depth to the coaching of your team if you did have to scout out opponents, and try to make the best team possible for the most likely match ups. |
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Rijssiej
Joined: Jan 04, 2005
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| Posted:
Jul 10, 2009 - 11:29 |
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| Snappy_Dresser wrote: | | Your scenarios seems implausible. Especially if the teams aren't revealed until the first matchup is posted. |
The problem won't exist for the first match up but for the other rounds it does.
Let me explain with an example:
Say there are 4 teams left in the tourney and you are playing the Amazons:
Dwarfs 153/155
Wood Elfs 145/110
Orcs 152/148
Amazons 152/151
If you didn't bother to check all the teams your zons would be scheduled against the dwarfs and even if you manage to win that you would most likely get the orcs in the finals that got an easy game vs the beaten up woodies. If you had checked all the teams in the tourney you could have avoided that match up by dropping a lino, which increases your chances of winning your next match and winning the tourney by quite a bit.
Besides giving the coaches that go into checking this an edge, it also gives them a way to pick their games in [B] which is something that is not very box-like. |
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Snappy_Dresser
Joined: Feb 11, 2005
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| Posted:
Jul 10, 2009 - 20:02 |
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but that's just human behavior. And a system that is immune to people gaming the system has not yet been invented. And FUMBBL coaches are sneakier than most, so a certain amount is inevitable. You may as well object to some other constant.
Two other thoughts:
1) there is a very good chance that the coach doing the predictions will be wrong, giving him a disadvantage. In fact, given that there will be a whole hell of a lot of teams around the 200 TR/TS point, it seems likely.
2) if the teams are frozen after the first round (as they should be), and they don't get to see their opponents until the first draw is made, the ability to "tailor" the teams, in a way that is contra to the spirit of the rules, seems to be pretty small. |
_________________
<PurpleChest> the way it splooshed got me so excited
"I hear that shadow is a douchebag"
-Mr Foulscumm |
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DukeTyrion
Joined: Feb 18, 2004
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| Posted:
Jul 10, 2009 - 20:14 |
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I would prefer to start with a simple TR capped tournament.
Remember, at the end of the day, someone is going to have to run the thing. |
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SillySod
Joined: Oct 10, 2006
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| Posted:
Jul 10, 2009 - 20:40 |
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There is a danger people might start hiring and firing according to the other teams in the tournament to get the "right" opponent. If the B scheduler is used to seed the teams it should be done at the start of the tournament only. |
_________________
Putting the "eh?" back into Sexeh.
"There are those to whom knowledge is a shield. There are those to whom it is a weapon. Neither view is balanced." |
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Rijssiej
Joined: Jan 04, 2005
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| Posted:
Jul 10, 2009 - 20:59 |
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| DukeTyrion wrote: | I would prefer to start with a simple TR capped tournament.
Remember, at the end of the day, someone is going to have to run the thing. |
Starting small is a good way to go indeed. |
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