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Kickoff and balls that go out after a failed picking attempt
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Wol



Joined: Jan 08, 2004
Post   Posted: Jan 31, 2004 - 22:13 Reply with quote Back to top
Let's take the following situation :
- there is a kickoff
- the direction and distance have been rolled
- the ball reaches one of the players, who tries to pick the ball
- he fails and so the ball scatters once
- the ball leaves the field after that scatter roll

Should we consider that the ball leaving the field (or the receving team half ot the field) is due to the receving team player and so do just like if it had happened during the normal course of a turn ?

Or should we consider that the ball left the field during a kick off and so allow the receiving team to give the ball to one of their player (which happened to us with JavaBowl) ?

I post this here because I am not 100% sure of the rules interpretation , so I can't say for sure that this is a bug from JavaBowl.
I read the LRB again and saw no mention of such a possibility.

Personally, I'd rather say that we do as if it happened during the normal course of a turn.
Candlejack



Joined: Aug 02, 2003
Post   Posted: Jan 31, 2004 - 23:45 Reply with quote Back to top
the recieving teams turn starts after the kick off has been done and therefore can't be ended before the kick off ends.. at least that is what i would say...

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slackman



Joined: Aug 02, 2003
Post   Posted: Feb 01, 2004 - 00:01 Reply with quote Back to top
the lrb states that if the ball goes off the receiving team's half of the pitch for any reason at any time, a touchback is awarded. whether or not it should be this way is debateable. however, the client rules this correctly.
Wol



Joined: Jan 08, 2004
Post   Posted: Feb 01, 2004 - 15:15 Reply with quote Back to top
CandleJack => I wasn't speaking about ending the receving team's turn, but instead about applying the normal throw-in rules if the ball leaves the field due to a player of the receiving team failing to grab the ball. It would also mean that the ball could move into the kicking team's half if you follow this reasoning to the end.

However, after re-reading the LRB, I agree with slackman and think that the clienty rules this correctly indeed :
- the LRB also mentions the "scatter" (opposite to the "bounce", when the ball lands in a empty square) as the source of the ball leaving the receiving team's half
- the scatter template is used when a player fails to pick up the ball.

It's just that it seems strange to be awarded a touchback when your player failed to pick the ball and so sent it out of the field.
Zigober



Joined: Dec 21, 2003
Post   Posted: Feb 03, 2004 - 18:03 Reply with quote Back to top
Well your interpretation could lead to serious problems... i had this problem once in board game when i started playing bbowl.

My opponent made is kick off and counted every square starting on my line of scrimage players which none could grab the ball (6 to get it) and the ball went behind HIS own line.... following by a long argument and my leaving of the league Sad (the league master gave reason to him).

my objections were that the ball is kicked in the air not at ground level... bouncing (scattering) after


In our case what if a player ( with a kicker) put the ball in the middle of your hard guys ?
MixX



Joined: Aug 02, 2003
Post   Posted: Feb 03, 2004 - 18:27 Reply with quote Back to top
well, if the ball is not on the receiving teams half after coming to rest, there's a touchback. Easy as that.
Wol



Joined: Jan 08, 2004
Post   Posted: Feb 03, 2004 - 18:42 Reply with quote Back to top
@Zigober
I don't think you understand my point correctly (or maybe I didn't understand yours).

I was talking about when the ball first hits the ground, after the first scatter roll of 1d6 squares.

Quote:

In our case what if a player ( with a kicker) put the ball in the middle of your hard guys ?

What do you mean by this sentence ?
I don't understand it exactly, but I am not a natural english speaker.
Grumbledook



Joined: Aug 02, 2003
Post   Posted: Feb 03, 2004 - 18:57 Reply with quote Back to top
they can't try and pick it up, they only try and catch it if the ball is going to land in the square that the player is, if he fails this catch and it goes out of bounds then it is a touchback, as that teams turn doesn't start until the kick off has come to rest
Darkwolf



Joined: Aug 02, 2003
Post   Posted: Feb 03, 2004 - 21:04 Reply with quote Back to top
Well said Grum. You don't want a touchback, make sure the ball lands in your opponents half, PERIOD.

A rl buddy tried to use that as well. If comes from watching too much REAL football (sorry Grum, euro football blows) in North America. An onside kick play is when a team tries to recover a kickoff. The kickoff HAS to travel at LEAST 10 yards. However, if a player touchs the ball BEFORE the 10 yards OR it hits a player and moves FORWARD into the 10 yard zone, it IS recoverable by the kicking team. The rules from NA Football sometimes confuses or narrows our perspective of a rugby/football hybrid game.

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Delta



Joined: Aug 02, 2003
Post   Posted: Feb 03, 2004 - 22:29 Reply with quote Back to top
Forgive me if I get a little confused, but does this all mean that it is impossible to have an onside kick in Bloodbowl?
(i.e. when it ends up in the kicking teams half before the receiving team have a chance to move).

I only ask because when me & friends have played tabletop we have allowed the ball to scatter into the other half from the kick.
(but not land directly - then it is a touchback)

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Darkwolf



Joined: Aug 02, 2003
Post   Posted: Feb 03, 2004 - 23:24 Reply with quote Back to top
Only chance at an "on side" kick is when you roll blitz on the kick off table.

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MixX



Joined: Aug 02, 2003
Post   Posted: Feb 04, 2004 - 12:27 Reply with quote Back to top
and then the ball isn't really onside is it? It still has to land in the opponent's half... ahh, nothing better than a Blitzing defense moving forward, only for the ball to scatter out of bounds, and then be given to the one player they didn't knock over, who sprints for the end-zone, uncatchable because the defense moved forward.. happened only once, in RL, but damn good fun (for me)..
CorporateSlave3



Joined: Feb 07, 2004
Post   Posted: Feb 13, 2004 - 16:22 Reply with quote Back to top
I would have to agree with Grumbledook, a player is trying to catch a ball on kickoff if it comes to his square, not pick it up. If he 'fails' it seems to me that it is more a case of it bouncing off his head rather than off an empty square of the pitch. The LRB states that if the ball BOUNCES OR SCATTERS off the field or into the kicking teams half it is the touchback. This would seem (IMHO) to state that if the ball hits the pitch and BOUNCES or hits a player who fails to catch it and SCATTERS off the receiving team's half then it is a touchback.

Therefore there is no way for the ball to end up anywhere other than somewhere (on the pitch or in a player's hands) on the receiving team's half after a kickoff. The kickoff is not a normal team turn. Basically, the spirit of this rule states that after a kickoff, the ball must come to rest on the receiving team's half, regardless of bounces, etc. or it is a touchback.

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