Saxo
Joined: Dec 08, 2003
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 Posted:
Feb 03, 2004 - 11:52 |
 
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There is a tendency that some people in here buy players after having agreed to play a match. This is allowed by the rules but I think it undermines the system with TEAM STR. It’s misleading and deceitful and I would like to have this changed in the rules. I don’t know how that would work, but I dislike that I have to play a guy who mislead me just because I didn’t notice his deceit before I hosted the game.
What do you think?
Saxo |
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AeoN2
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Feb 03, 2004 - 11:56 |
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Freebooting phase is right before game start. I'm not sure about player buying, but freebooting a star before the game without saying is legal (if a bit underhanded).
You should always keep that in mind when you see a team with lots of cash that is unused, especially if there are open positionals.
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AeoN2 |
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Barash
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Feb 03, 2004 - 12:22 |
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I have bought once a player before the game started, but not without informing my opponent, asking if he had a problem with it (he didn't, so I bought an extra human lineman at that time).
I think players who do this without informing you should end up on your ignore list or so, at least that's what I do.
Maybe it would be good idea to make a fumbbl "Code Of Conduct" rule on this? |
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Barash |
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Fejd
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Feb 03, 2004 - 12:34 |
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Why? In RL u dont have to announce your finalised player list until just before the game starts, then u hand it over to the officials. Besides, money counts against TR and having alot of it just laying around usually makes your team weaker and/or will result in handicap rolls against you. So expect the opposition to try and cause problems to you, by hiring new players, freeboting stars/wizards and/or dumping cash for handicap rolls.
If u wanna be sure u know whats going on, have your opponet host the game and check his team out before u connect, making neccesary adjustments to your rooster if needed. |
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Clementus
Joined: Oct 01, 2003
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Feb 03, 2004 - 12:46 |
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Hardly a good point Fejd, in Real Life, which i dont believe Bloodbowl is part of, though might be confused, it is rather easy to see a players side, squad before the match. Transfers are well known and buying in a player is generally noticed. Obviously its allowed but i would have to say that it is frowned upon by myself if not the admin in total.
Not something i like to see though I have done it myself without realising, but was more than happy to call off the match when the opponent said something.
Remember guys we are here to have fun, not just for yourself but for all. |
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Warlord Clementus (of the Black Hand Tribe)
Monkey of the Moot!
Flings Rule! |
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Saxo
Joined: Dec 08, 2003
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Feb 03, 2004 - 12:47 |
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"If u wanna be sure u know whats going on, have your opponet host the game and check his team out before u connect, making neccesary adjustments to your rooster if needed."
Is that really the way it should be? That the guy who host the game has a disadvantage. Money affects your TR but not your STR and i think most people use STR to decide if they want to play or not. The idea of having STR is to allow players to match up with an opponent and the fact that u can buy players that does not figure in STR is undermining the process of finding opponents. |
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grep-v
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Feb 03, 2004 - 13:02 |
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| Fejd wrote: | | Why? In RL u dont have to announce your finalised player list until just before the game starts, then u hand it over to the officials. |
Hm, it differs from league to league but IIRC in the german football league you have to name your whole squad for the season, announce all players on the field and on the bench at least 1 hour before the game to the referee and all bought players have to be approved by the football association (with some additional admin stuff thrown in).
But anyway: BB is not RL. Modifying the team after negotiating the match just adds to the "cherrypicking":
- it is good advice too play against teams in your own STR-class
- then the handicap came in: now it is good advice that your opponent ALSO hasn't much less TR than you
- if there is a trend towards saving money to heavily modify the teams before matches, guess what factor plays into choice of opponents further on. At this point the STR-rating could be dropped, as it only describes the strength of a team without money 
Just my 2 cent |
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AeoN2
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Feb 03, 2004 - 15:59 |
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I think Fejd meant RL bloodbowl (i.e. the boardgame), and I agree with him fully. I don't like the tactic of buying a player just before the game, but it's all by the rules.
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AeoN2 |
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Mully
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Feb 03, 2004 - 16:05 |
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Aeon2 - well technically it's NOT. Although free-booting is allowed pre-game, the purchase of full-time players is a post-game activity.
Maybe Ski could program a "post-game" routine. Maybe something as simple as a box that says "yes" / "no", and you click yes when you are done all your post-game purchases. Then the client will prohibit you from making any additional purchases until you start the next post game routine.
Not a high priority but something that would address some concerns. |
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m0nty
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Feb 03, 2004 - 16:36 |
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I have talked with Saxo about this in reference to his own experiences, and my personal view is that the rule isn't perfect. FUMBBL is totally committed to following the LRB in all possible ways, and it is true that as per page 42 of the LRB the hiring of freebooters, stars and wizards is part of the game sequence, which can not be halted once started... thus meaning the "match" has already started once you start hiring, which in turn means you have to play out the game or risk punishment. However, as Mully says, buying full-time players is a post-game activity, so technically you should not be allowed to buy players after agreeing to play, since you should be considered to be in the "pre-match sequence" as described in the LRB.
This is one of several cases where problems are caused by the fact that the LRB was created with tabletop gaming in mind, without regard for the intricacies of online play. It would be difficult to justify Christer diverging from the LRB, given his previous statements about how FUMBBL is all about LRB adherence - even if the LRB doesn't make perfect sense in this case.
I would support a change to the rule whereby, after two FUMBBL players agree to play, if one player hires freebooters, wizard or stars, the game still has to go ahead - but if they buy a full-time player, the game is considered not to have "started" until the other coach agrees to the newly strengthened roster. |
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MixX
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Feb 03, 2004 - 17:04 |
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just funny that all of a sudden, people realize why lots of spare cash bump up your team rating.. that said, I do not buy new players after agreeing to play either, and I never experienced anyone doing it to me either, so I wonder if it's really that big a problem.. but ok, I understand the frustration, since it's hard enough to find decently matched games in the first place.. |
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JFK
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Feb 03, 2004 - 18:05 |
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I think, that like some guys said before it shoudl be not alowed to buy new players before game, other thing is freeboting or hiring wizard. I once hired star but i ask my opp if he have any problems with that, he said so we just carry on playing. If any one will have any problems with opp doing that, he shoudl be on his "black list". Other thing is that u can said "i will not play, u brought new player" after u connect to game, becouse nig rolls has been made, and all other stuff.
We all shoudl remember that we play for fun, and when some one, do "bad" stuff we shoudl kill his team, and after the game said to him "no problem, that was another player that i coudl kill " 
Thats what i think:) |
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origami
Joined: Oct 14, 2003
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Feb 03, 2004 - 18:22 |
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This was a problem for me once. I agreed to play an orc team with my woodies after looking at the roster and finding it to be pretty benign. Unfortunately, the coach hired a star with chainsaw before the match started. He had excellent luck with his penalty rolls, so my elves spent the entire match getting sliced up.
Now, any Orc team with money gets to host if they want to play me. |
Last edited by origami on %b %03, %2004 - %18:%Feb; edited 2 times in total |
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BadMrMojo
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Feb 03, 2004 - 18:23 |
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Just a thing of note:
| FAQ/Rules page wrote: | Game Rules
The following order of rules interpretations will be in effect:
The client - For bugs, please refer to the appropriate section on this page.
The division specific rules - Look at the divisions page.
This page.
The LRB - In case of changes in the LRB there might be a period of time where FUMBBL runs using a mixed ruleset.
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{edit: in light of MixX's very valid point below, perhaps I'm mistaken here as well. Oh well. I still say, "Just don't do it to deceive people," however mistaken I may be. }
This means that hiring new permanent players after agreeing to a match is against FUMBBL rules (even though the client and the web site allow you to do so). It's an offense just like match fixing. Not nearly as severe a problem, IMHO but the same in principle.
Basically, don't do it to deceive your opponent. Simple enough, eh?
If someone were to make an honest mistake and forget to replace a lino before a game, I'd certainly let them fix it and restart. Just use some common sense.
As I understand it (although I've been known to be daft on occasion, so take this with a grain of salt) hiring wizards, stars and freebooters is fine, according to the LRB. They are hired once the game has been arranged and is starting. This just means that you all need to look out for any team with a big pile of cash, since it could turn out to be a wizard and Morg in disguise. It all goes back to the old advice of checking your opponent's roster if you care about such things. |
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Last edited by BadMrMojo on %b %03, %2004 - %18:%Feb; edited 1 time in total |
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MixX
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Feb 03, 2004 - 18:34 |
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| the Fumbbl rules wrote: | | A game is considered to have started at the moment the clients connect. At this point you are committed to the game and must play it out. Note that this includes scenarios where your opponent purchased new players after the mutual agreement to play. |
according to this, it's acceptable to do this?? I may be wrong, hell - I hope I am, but it looks like it's one of those "he can do it if he's a prat, play him once and never again" cases... |
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