DukeTyrion
Joined: Feb 18, 2004
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 Posted:
Nov 09, 2010 - 16:45 |
 
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LRB 6 has brought with it many new skills, some of which I am still unsure about, others already have their appeal. For players like Gutter runners the choice is somewhat endless depending on the job they are given, but I wondered how others intend to skill their linemen.
Like alot of people, I tend to line up 3 fodder on the LoS, and with this is mind I am starting to consider the benefits of taking Wrestle, +AV and possible even Thick Skull to make for the ideal LoS fodder (albeit they start to get expensive).
I suspect I will build towards a rat team with;
Thrower - Leader
Vermin - M Blow, Guard, Piling On, Tackle
Defensive Gutter - Block, S Step, Diving Tackle, Prehensile Tail
Offensive Gutter - Block, Dauntless, Frenzy, Strip Ball
LoS Lineman - Wrestle, AV
Lineman - Kick
Lineman - DP
Although I also expect to end up with the other LoS fodder
Lineman - Niggle, -MA, -AG
Also, are people intending to keep fodder with Niggles? I know a niggle on a blodge, SS gutter isn't much of an issue, because hopefully he will not spend much time on the ground, but a niggle on your LoS fodder means a player getting KO'd alot of the time (Suddenly with an armour break it's 7/12 KO or worse, rather than 7/12 Stun). I don't really want to be in the position of quickly down to 8 men.
So, just wanted to know what other people's thoughts were. I am mainly thinking from a Rat perspective, but even humans and elves will have similar issues. |
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asharak
Joined: Nov 27, 2007
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Nov 09, 2010 - 16:53 |
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Personally I still dump nigglers. -Stats I'm fine with (depending on the stat and what the player is for!) but as niggles have a significant in-game downside I'm not a fan. That said, they do also have an upside - the opponent is going to want cas SPP so is likely to blitz your niggler over another equal target. This can perhaps be used to draw them out of position? I dunno, just a thought.
So far I'm still in the rookie lineman on LOS stage but I do intend to get skilledish guys there eventually. Still not decided between block and wrestle - if only one or two skills I prefer wrestle but more and i prefer block. obvious other choices inclue dodge, +AV, fend, sidestep. However, while this would make a very good LOS lino you're never likely to be in a position where 5 skill guys should be going anywhere near the LOS! Which makes life tougher. In practise I think I'll be going with linos who're yet to skill much, so they'll just have whatever their first picks were on the road to becoming non-LOS linos!
Hmm, that was a lot of typing to just say 'I don't know'
Edit: Mainly thinking in an elven way myself, hence dodge/SS. Not done much rat play in FFB yet! |
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Carnis
Joined: Feb 03, 2009
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Nov 09, 2010 - 16:54 |
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I havent seen anybody advocate Thick skull doubles, I figure dodge will make them more resilient if you want to use doubles for LOS fodder. I really like Fend as 2nd skill for LOS linemen, combined with wrestle you are guaranteed to be free of TZs when being blocked by a single player (such as a BOB) or when not being blocked sideways, even then it prevents frenzy & usually piling on. Thick skull troll could be interesting, but there always seems to be a better skill to pick.
I believe niggles have the largest effect on low AV players.. as you say going from 5/12 to 7/12 is harsh, even higher for MB and just brutal with DP gangfouls. I have on some occasions kept players with +Stats in teams even when niggled, but it's the same with -AV, on a non-skilled rookie it's a firing offence on a star it's relative.
I would never take +AV over 5+5, I'd never take AV to go from 9 to 10 (due to claw), but going from AV7 -> 8 is fine, I'd not take +AV before the first blocking skill though (Wrestle or Block), because the relative increase in survivability is about the same, but W/Block work on your turn preventing turnovers and enabling plays. |
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Carnis
Joined: Feb 03, 2009
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Nov 09, 2010 - 16:55 |
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Thick skull doubles also sometimes come up in CRP-vampire threads, but I've never yet seen anybody take it over guard or dodge in practice, though. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Nov 09, 2010 - 17:01 |
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I think wrestle and Fend are probably all the skills your los players will even need really. |
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maysrill
Joined: Dec 29, 2008
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Nov 09, 2010 - 17:04 |
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I'd recommend Fend as a second normal skill on fodder. Still, once it gets 2 skills it's not "fodder" as much anymore. I'd still put injured/rookie linos on the LOS over anything skilled at all.
As for doubles, I'd take Claw (or MB) and get away from the LOS-fodder mode for that particular rat. If your SV/Roger already have Claw/MB well covered, I'd look to Dodge.
For blitzer-gutters, Dauntless, Wrestle, Leap, SB. Sending them to wardancer school is easier (though less effective now) than it was before. |
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Author of Firehurler (Twinborn Trilogy Book #1), Aethersmith (Book #2), Sourcethief (Book #3) |
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RC
Joined: Sep 22, 2005
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Nov 09, 2010 - 17:07 |
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I recomend wrestle over block on gutters. They can take down blodgers and have enough mv next turn to get out of dodge. I hate the new dauntless since its completely unreliable, much rather take strip ball and go for 1d or -2d on non sure hands players.
Linos I give block or wrestle, 2nd skill, guess dauntless, tackle , kick, dp or so.
- av, thats a dp player right there.
Throwers, I never realy saw the point with skaven throwers since a gutter with sure hands is usually better. But I guess leader and the new safe throw is pretty cool. Kick could also go on one of them. And kick off return is pretty flashy. |
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"Oh, you hate your job? Why didn't you say so? There's a support group for that. It's called EVERYBODY, and they meet at the bar." |
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DukeTyrion
Joined: Feb 18, 2004
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| Posted:
Nov 09, 2010 - 17:27 |
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| RC wrote: | I recomend wrestle over block on gutters. They can take down blodgers and have enough mv next turn to get out of dodge. I hate the new dauntless since its completely unreliable, much rather take strip ball and go for 1d or -2d on non sure hands players.
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I don't like wrestle on Gutters, for a couple of reasons, firstly they are the ones likely to have the ball and on a both down result I want them standing.
Secondly, there is no eye in LRB 6 and any gutter hitting the floor is likely to find himself attached to a boot in fairly short order.
Maybe 1 wrestle gutter might be worth a thought, other than that I like wrestle for opening the gaps for the gutter to run through. |
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RC
Joined: Sep 22, 2005
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Nov 09, 2010 - 17:29 |
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Well I blitz a lot with my gutters . They are very good vs blodgers with wrestle, none in my team has been able to develope tackle yet, |
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"Oh, you hate your job? Why didn't you say so? There's a support group for that. It's called EVERYBODY, and they meet at the bar." |
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Shraaaag
Joined: Feb 15, 2004
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Nov 09, 2010 - 17:31 |
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No Rat Ogre? Not even for comic relief?
I'd consider having horns on one of the vermins.
For the linerats, I'd mix it up with some with block and some with wrestle. I might go with +av on a non-double 10, but on a double, there are plenty of skills I'd rather pick (dodge, side-step etc...) |
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RC
Joined: Sep 22, 2005
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Nov 09, 2010 - 17:36 |
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Rat ogre is a must. ¨They are much more reliable with loner and access to juggernaught, On doubbles for vermin I think claw is better but 2nd doubble is definetly horns. Horns for gutters to and might even give it to a lino if no other player is getting doubbles. |
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"Oh, you hate your job? Why didn't you say so? There's a support group for that. It's called EVERYBODY, and they meet at the bar." |
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Grod
Joined: Sep 30, 2003
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Nov 09, 2010 - 17:45 |
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Wrestle is a great all round skill to get on linerats, I think. When both downs are rolled, your rats can safely jump to the floor without an armor roll, and avoid blocks for the rest of your opponents turn. Moreover, they bring down one of your opponents players as well, opening the pitch up for when it is your turn. And for rats, that is a nice thing. |
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DukeTyrion
Joined: Feb 18, 2004
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Nov 09, 2010 - 17:56 |
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| Shraaaag wrote: | No Rat Ogre? Not even for comic relief?
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I tend to buy a rat ogre if I have 15 healthy players and some spare cash, which given my style of play is a rare thing  |
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maysrill
Joined: Dec 29, 2008
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Nov 09, 2010 - 18:57 |
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If you want blitzer-gutters, Wrestle makes more sense to me. The goal is ball -> ground -> gutter -> away from everyone. Worrying about the boot the wrestle-gutter takes is secondary. You risk them plenty as it is just giving them new-Dauntless. Let them live their short, glorious careers and when they are fouled to death, replacing a 2-normal-skill gutter isn't too hard.
If you worry that Wrestle makes them worse ball carriers, just optimize all 4 for man-marking and defense, and use the SV, Roger, and any well-skilled linos as your blitzers. |
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Author of Firehurler (Twinborn Trilogy Book #1), Aethersmith (Book #2), Sourcethief (Book #3) |
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RedDevilCG
Joined: Jan 09, 2010
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Nov 09, 2010 - 19:05 |
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Why not do 2 and 2? Skaven don't have to be all blitz gutters, or all marking gutters. I do agree that blitz gutters should have wrestle though.
2 Wrestle, Strip, Dauntless and,
2 blodge, Sidestep, whatever. |
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