PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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Jan 24, 2011 - 18:39 |
 
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Well we have discussed tactics to do as the underdog and use your cash to buy inducements.
But what about if you are the favorite and sitting on a huge stash of cash?
These ideas have some conditions.
1)You are in a KO style tournament.
2)Winning the match is the only concern
3)You have a horde...1 Mil. plus in cash laying around.
4)You are the favorite for the match or the match is close to even in terms of TV.
Ok here it goes.
You have 2 Mil in gold and you are ready for the major that just had its draw.
You draw your first round opponeet and he is a 165 TV dog. So you are allready giving him 165,000 gold in inducements. In the big pitcture that seems like a lot but it is not in reality. He could buy a babe + a 100,000 gold inducment or a chump star of his choice. Not to concerned about that. BUT he does have 3 really nice players that could cause you some problems.
WHY NOT purchase that 340,000 gold Star player to help you out?
1) the free inducement money you have no control over at this point...you are only giving him the additional on the star.
2)If your opponeet does not have star quality at that range you will eat into his free portion by making him use that money on top of your star purchase to upgrade his star, and thus he has less off the pitch inducement options.
3)Babes and bribes and apoths...they are nice...but they dont effect what is happening ON THE PITCH! so dont worry about those. They are out of your control so dont worry about them.
4)If you hire lets say Zug he has impact on the pitch. Your opponeet needs to worry about him and he could/will increase your chances to win the match.
5)it demoralizes your opponeet. He starts to moan and groan about the unfariness in majors and the large stash of gold teams. He is allready on the defensive and concerned more about that flame forum post that he is going to write after the match than what he is going to do on the pitch to win...THAT is a huge advantage. He is probally going through your previous matches whille the match is going on to frame his cherry picker claim and when you point out it is a Box major. Well he starts to frame the your a lucker for because of your weak random draws for your previous 15 matches.
6)The specs appreciate you for hiring the star and making the game more enjoyable to watch...you get more cheers than boo's...another pyschological advantage.
7)That cash is doing you no good anyway...heck you have so much cash your team could get "slagged" 2 times over and purchase 32 players over the next 5 games and still have gold on hand...use the money to increase your chances to WIN the GAME and ADVANCE to the NEXT ROUND.
8)Inducements are not overpowering...only stars/mercenaries are overpowering on the pitch. if your opponeet has 2 bribes and 3 babes and an xtra Aptoh..who cares? A well timed stall on the goal line has basically negated all those inducments..Babes only matter for KO's and after a score. Bribes..chances are you are stalling because you are pawning your opponeet and the fouls are frustration fouls to begin with..let him foul away. Xtra apoth..wow nice your 51+ SPP blitzer got killed and passed his apoth..but he is off the ptich so I dont really care. Starting to get my point now?
Wizard? Well now he has been reduced to 50/50 chance on the fireball and a 2+ on the bolt..cant do anything about it to begin with so dont worry about it, just play smart to reduce the effectivness of the wizards spell.
Chef...50/50 chacne on 3 rolls to rob a RR...once again you are in a major with a mega team...your 6 Rerolls are just fine..dont even worry about the chef...hit the buffet line and have a full stomach for your crushing victory.
This tactic is all about attitude! you have the cash, use it to crush your opponeet with it. If you are only concerned about winning then use the cash to give your team a real advantage to win the match. Sitting on a horde does you no good, well if you are allready looking to the next major and are afraid you might have to replace some players, well I would say that is not really a winning attitude now is it.
SO if you have cash use it!!
If we are going to have forum topics about how unfair it is to have a mega stash of cash I would rather have that discussion about how coaches are buying Stars and the off the field inducements stink. Rather than reading posts about how it is unfair that the SE chart has some how been morally violated. |
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Macavity
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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| Posted:
Jan 24, 2011 - 18:55 |
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Hoard of gold. Horde of mongols. I'll support any thread not related to timing out!
Actually, I think this is sound advice! If I ever have a successful team, I may apply it!  |
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cmelchior
Joined: Apr 11, 2004
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Jan 24, 2011 - 19:11 |
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While this argument of "gold"-teams have popped up a lot lately, I will wait and see if these ever appear.
It is true that you in theory can accumulate a lot of gold at lower TV levels. However, if you want to compete in a major, you need to advance that team to quite high levels afterwards, which means a lot of matches. In those matches more players than before will die due to reduced apothecary efficiency and spiraling expenses will start to kick in. So before you actually get to a major competitive TV your cash will be reduced quite a bit.
Perhaps I underestimate peoples desire to "cheat" the system, but I would wait and see if this ever became a problem. |
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Sinner
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jan 24, 2011 - 19:24 |
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I remember ppl moaning about teams with loads of cash in LRB 4 majors that 'could afford Count/Ramtut/Morg/Htark' every game till the finals. Been there, done that.
Still they lost at some point (as only one can win). Exchanging cash for stars (or more generally speaking inducements) does not prevent bad dice or losing against a slightly lower team that is better built.
Btw. Best tactics against stars with the ball: Surf! |
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Sinner
Darkie's Dreams - successfully cherrypicking any race, any coach, any rating, any number of DP since 20/09/2003 ... and still winning! |
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Timlagor
Joined: Feb 13, 2009
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Jan 24, 2011 - 19:26 |
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I think you may underestimate the presssure to build a hoard. It looks like income is going to be asically nil at higher TV so you you have to build up enough cash to last you your whole spell at high TV (though having some star players miss games can help your cashflow ...until you have to replace them).
So is winning this particular match worth more to you than getting ot stay up at this TV for a while after the competition? (quite possibly)
Painstate, some of your post just makes no sense. You *can* do something about the Wizard: you can not spend all your money to give it to your opponent in the first place (same applies to anything else you dismissed). Babes and Apo DO (potentially) affect what happens on the pitch -just not immediately.
Here's where I'd spend that hoard:
1) games where you are the underdog and can increase your inducements to a 'break point' such as enough to get a good star. This could be relatively cheap.
2) teams who gain particularly from specific inducements: eg bribes for your secret weapons, maybe apoth for elves though I am dubious. |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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Jan 24, 2011 - 19:34 |
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In the big pitcture of a KO sytle tournament there are so many things that are out of your control that will determing winning and losing your only response is to attempt to increase your odds by making proper choices that are in your control...What to do prematch with your cash is just one area that is in your control...During the game the choices you make are huge..You constantly roll double 1's on pick up the ball 7 turns in a row then yes cash, stars and on and on will not matter in the least.
So back on point..if you have a huge stash of cash..use it. It will increase your odds to win the match.
Off topic point: That is why majors, any tournament that is KO style, have a large appeal to coaches...The match actually matters, so every aspect of team tactics, money managment and team development all converge in one glorious tournament with everything on the line.
Playing one off games, regardless of div, one or two aspects of your team can be completly ignored. Thus the appeal factor is a lot less for just a one off match in the box or on gamefinder. |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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Jan 24, 2011 - 19:45 |
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| Timlagor wrote: |
Here's where I'd spend that hoard:
1) games where you are the underdog and can increase your inducements to a 'break point' such as enough to get a good star. This could be relatively cheap.
2) teams who gain particularly from specific inducements: eg bribes for your secret weapons, maybe apoth for elves though I am dubious. |
Well good points.
Point #1: was all ready covered in my riviting and explosive review on this topic, 
2) I totally agree that if you are the favorite, even a heavy favorite. getting that bribe could help your chances of winning, only you can make that detemination. Of course others can applaud/critize that choice but only you actually get to decide.
My only problem with your post was the use of the word *can*...In my description of the Wizard it was intended to convey a attitude that you did not care if your opponeet has a wizard. So you allready made the choice not to give a flip if your opponeet has a wizard.
Every inducement has the possiblitly of increasing your chances in one aspect of the match....Iam a Huge believer that the only indcuments that you should actually have some worries are the ones that are actually on the pitch smashing your pixels to atoms. Having a pro/con discussion in your head about the worth of 2 babes in your opponeets dug out and the possibility that they will effect the out come of the match is something you should not even worry about. Now I would say if my opponeet was wringing his hands over the 2 babes sitting next to me in the dug out and trying to figure out what to do. Well then I would say Iam well on way to victory as he keeps looking into my dug out at the nice "eye candy" sitting next to my avatar and not worrying about what is happening on the pitch. |
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Last edited by PainState on %b %24, %2011 - %19:%Jan; edited 1 time in total |
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zakatan
Joined: May 17, 2008
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Jan 24, 2011 - 19:46 |
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340+165=505=Morg
he plays for anyone, really |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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Jan 24, 2011 - 19:53 |
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| zakatan wrote: | 340+165=505=Morg
he plays for anyone, really |
So in the first post if you bought a 340,000 gold star your opponeet would be able to field Morg...
Well we could go back and forth all day long on the pros/cons of what is the right choice to make if your opponeet gave you 505,000 gold for the match. A lot of variables, which allways leads to a "spirited" deabate on what to do.
This is really about "attitude" that you dont care what your opponeet does in response, your still going to crush his hopes and dreams and fill the CAS boxes to overflow with his crushed pixels or kick your opponeet out of the tourney on the heels of crushing 4-0 loss as you "balled" him into the pitch. |
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RedDevilCG
Joined: Jan 09, 2010
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Jan 24, 2011 - 21:15 |
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In a knockout I would spend the cash if I thought it gave my an "on pitch" advantage greater than my opponent. For sure.
However I would also be doing the math, as it would be best to add to your petty cash in a way that maximizes your ability to purchase while leaving your opponent always just 10,000g short of being able to do a decent upgrade. |
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JellyBelly
Joined: Jul 08, 2009
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Jan 25, 2011 - 09:26 |
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Hmm ... not sure I agree with many of your points there Painstate. The thing is, it seems to me that the new Petty Cash system is a bit broken. It's now very difficult to use any of your cash to give you a one-off in-game advantage. Any cash you use as the overdog you're automatically giving to your opponent as well, and any cash that you use as the underdog is just eating into the money that you're getting for free anyway.
I think the effect of the new inducement system plus journeymen will be that pretty much any game will be evened out more than it would have been with the LRB4 system, which I think will affect tourneys quite a bit. Some people might prefer this, because it means that it will be more about coaching skill than who got lucky with their winnings rolls and injuries in their previous games.
Although personally I used to quite like the dilemma that you had in tourneys as to whether to spend your cash now to give you an advantage in the current game, or whether to take a risk and try to save your cash for later (potentially more difficult) games. I think this added some interesting strategy to tourneys that it seems may be lost under the new rule system.
I think another interesting question would be - are any of the inducements actually worth their TV cost? How much do they actually even up the game? |
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Timlagor
Joined: Feb 13, 2009
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Jan 26, 2011 - 11:30 |
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Painstate you seem to me confuddling* two different situations.
1) During the match there is nothing you can do about the Babes so it's not worth worrying about.
1a) WIzards are something that will directly affect what happens on the pitch so it is something you might want to bear in mind when positioning.
2) PREmatch you should consider what you are giving your opponent. It strikes me as bizarre to claim that *your* inducement spending is great while giving your opponent the same money is irrelevant: they may be able to do something *better* with it! (you don't want to go giving bribes to goblins or Deathrollers).
So. Please maintain the attitude that nothing I do matters when I play you
* a conflation of conflating, confusing and muddling. |
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uzkulak
Joined: Mar 30, 2004
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Jan 26, 2011 - 12:38 |
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| JellyBelly wrote: |
I think another interesting question would be - are any of the inducements actually worth their TV cost? How much do they actually even up the game? |
Some of them are situationally very powerful. Bloodweiser babes if you are elves playing against dworcs for example. The bribe for goblins, deathrollers, hired chainsaws and serial DP foulers. Extra apoth and rr are more useful in rookie games i suspect, but they have a clear uncontestable value.
Some of the stars are also powerful, but as these are mostly very expensive IMO they are almost never value for money unless they can bring something very different to your team. |
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uuni
Joined: Mar 12, 2010
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Jan 26, 2011 - 13:09 |
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| JellyBelly wrote: | | I think another interesting question would be - are any of the inducements actually worth their TV cost? How much do they actually even up the game? |
My gut feeling about that matter is that the inducements typically are worth of about 2/3 of their price, which would mean that I would value the wizard to have an "on-field" value of about 100k. There is of course a lot of variance regarding the use value of single items of inducements, as uzkulak also said. My current view is based on some tabletop playing and discussions with players better than myself. I appreciate if someone has more information about this to share for us.
How do you value the inducements? |
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