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Poll
Would you be fine with their being an exception in the maximum allowed team difference for halflings?
Yes
59%
 59%  [ 73 ]
No
40%
 40%  [ 49 ]
Total Votes : 122


zakatan



Joined: May 17, 2008

Post   Posted: Feb 16, 2011 - 13:50 Reply with quote Back to top

Wreckage wrote:
RandomOracle wrote:
According to the admins, the max 15% difference applies to Ranked as well.

Accually that would be a terrible idea. Ranked is and used to be always a place where it was possible to compensate for highly unfavorable matchups by high TV difference. Making use of inducements really gets first interesting if the difference is very high. 15% would be so little that it would be in the area where it is just not worthwile to take a matchup on having a lower TV and the matches being played would drop by estimated 40%.


furthermore, having a % difference instead of a fixed one is rather confusing. I presume we will see a lot of illegal games due to this (misscalculation or lack of rules knowledge, as it isn't stated in the division rules).

It'd be ncie if the client warned you if you set up an illegal game.
Astarael



Joined: Aug 14, 2005

Post   Posted: Feb 16, 2011 - 13:53 Reply with quote Back to top

Wreckage wrote:
RandomOracle wrote:
According to the admins, the max 15% difference applies to Ranked as well.

Accually that would be a terrible idea. Ranked is and used to be always a place where it was possible to compensate for highly unfavorable matchups by high TV difference. Making use of inducements really gets first interesting if the difference is very high. 15% would be so little that it would be in the area where it is just not worthwile to take a matchup on having a lower TV and the matches being played would drop by estimated 40%.


It's not an idea, it's in effect. Games outwith the 15% rule do not start.

I'd be in favour of trying 20%, then possibly 25%. I think it was right to start small and test out, rather than vice versa but I do feel 15% is a bit tight.

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Woodstock



Joined: Dec 11, 2004

Post   Posted: Feb 16, 2011 - 13:53 Reply with quote Back to top

Two things. First of all people need to realise that you are expected to play balanced matches. In the old R this was within 10 TS, which roughly translates to 100TV.
Second, TS was not the only rating in R, TR is the offical rating of LRB4. But as it was borked on a couple of important points, the TS limit was higher then the expected average.

Now... TR/TS is gone. TV is far superior to both, there is no need to allow big gaps between teams. Inducments are nice, but does not make games fair, only a little less screwed for the underdog.
To prevent abuse, because that will happen, and to set R and B on the same line, the limit was set to 15%. It may be hard to find games while R is still starting, but it shouldn't be one once its back to his normal levels.

@zakatan: It does.
Burnalot



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Feb 16, 2011 - 14:18 Reply with quote Back to top

On1 wrote:
Burnalot wrote:
I think the maximum difference should be the maximum amount the weaker team can spend on inducements. This could be exploited of course, but personally I would like to play some games with big inducements, just for fun.


So you want teams to be able to play 2000TV down/up? (2 expensive stars, +max of babes/bribes/apos etc.

Or are you talking about being able to buy the most expensive single inducement? (as in morg)


The first one. People should be able allowed to arrange their games freely in Ranked, in my opinion. The maximum limit should be there not to have "uncompensated" TV differences in the games(playing more TV up than you can buy in inducements).
This is my way of saying TV restrictions should be abolished in Ranked.

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Wreckage



Joined: Aug 15, 2004

Post   Posted: Feb 16, 2011 - 17:50 Reply with quote Back to top

Woodstock wrote:
Two things. First of all people need to realise that you are expected to play balanced matches. In the old R this was within 10 TS, which roughly translates to 100TV.
Second, TS was not the only rating in R, TR is the offical rating of LRB4. But as it was borked on a couple of important points, the TS limit was higher then the expected average.
.

An average difference of 10 TS is very different from an absolut difference. The new rules system is more accurate but it also handles TV difference better then TR. In the beta I put my 160 tv necros up against 200tv norse a couple of times and it wasn't a problem. Ranked should be the place where game breakers like piling on and claw on a team is taken into account. Whatever you say TV is not accurate. We had ranked for that to fix this. Sad that TV seems to be the new holy grail.
Henekka



Joined: Apr 12, 2006

Post   Posted: Feb 17, 2011 - 03:55 Reply with quote Back to top

Yeah halfflings and gobos are really underestimated. Part of the tactic to get all kinds of stuff so i dont understand whats the problem getting special rules for flings and halflings maybe more would play them if there was any point.
free quote of adming saying there is no need to give flings anything cause they still suck. i doubt if some popular race would have same dificulties then there would be something done but being so litle played none gives a crap of them wich isnt right
On1



Joined: Jul 12, 2004

Post   Posted: Feb 17, 2011 - 11:39 Reply with quote Back to top

Burnalot wrote:
On1 wrote:
Burnalot wrote:
I think the maximum difference should be the maximum amount the weaker team can spend on inducements. This could be exploited of course, but personally I would like to play some games with big inducements, just for fun.


So you want teams to be able to play 2000TV down/up? (2 expensive stars, +max of babes/bribes/apos etc.

Or are you talking about being able to buy the most expensive single inducement? (as in morg)


The first one. People should be able allowed to arrange their games freely in Ranked, in my opinion. The maximum limit should be there not to have "uncompensated" TV differences in the games(playing more TV up than you can buy in inducements).
This is my way of saying TV restrictions should be abolished in Ranked.


I know what i state now is not the intention from your side, but a negative side effect.

Your idea will make it a lot easier for huge bloated teams to get an easy match before a tournament. Even more easy than before, where a difference of 40 ts was the limit. Sadly i predict that it will be exploited to the max. I know the 15% can be exploited as well.. but still, there is a difference.
Skeloboy



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Feb 17, 2011 - 11:49 Reply with quote Back to top

When all inducments are implented, I'd say there should be no limit. I have played plenty of much stronger teams with 500, 800 and even 1 million in inducements, and it works fine. Even won a lot of them Smile

Edit: and another thing...many stars will become obsolete with this rather stupid rule. At TV2000, there is no way my skaven can hire the Headsplitter.

Inducement works, and they work well. Quit the rule or raise it to 50% or something like that. The reasonably balanced argument is not that valid anymore. Inducements are made to even it out with 80%
maznaz



Joined: Jan 26, 2004

Post   Posted: Feb 17, 2011 - 12:06 Reply with quote Back to top

Is ranked meant to be a competitive division or not? If so, then adjustments to rules for flavour reasons do not belong there.
Skeloboy



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Feb 17, 2011 - 12:10 Reply with quote Back to top

It's not about flavour, it was just an example of how a lot the stars are obsolete with this low limit. And trust me, I have played with inducements for 5 years now, and they do balanced the game a lot more. Of course they do not even the odds.
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Feb 17, 2011 - 12:22 Reply with quote Back to top

Burnalot wrote:
On1 wrote:
Burnalot wrote:
I think the maximum difference should be the maximum amount the weaker team can spend on inducements. This could be exploited of course, but personally I would like to play some games with big inducements, just for fun.


So you want teams to be able to play 2000TV down/up? (2 expensive stars, +max of babes/bribes/apos etc.

Or are you talking about being able to buy the most expensive single inducement? (as in morg)


The first one. People should be able allowed to arrange their games freely in Ranked, in my opinion. The maximum limit should be there not to have "uncompensated" TV differences in the games(playing more TV up than you can buy in inducements).
This is my way of saying TV restrictions should be abolished in Ranked.


+1

People can give away huge TV differences and still win.

This ain't your Grandma's old LRB4

Are no tree fling teams banned from [R]anked?

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blocknroll



Joined: Aug 04, 2009

Post   Posted: Feb 17, 2011 - 12:31 Reply with quote Back to top

are stars even working in ranked yet? i had a 110tv difference game, could have hired the chainsaw, had to take 2 babes instead...
zakatan



Joined: May 17, 2008

Post   Posted: Feb 17, 2011 - 13:17 Reply with quote Back to top

blocknroll wrote:
are stars even working in ranked yet? i had a 110tv difference game, could have hired the chainsaw, had to take 2 babes instead...


good old full roster problem?

Can't have more than 16 available players for a game. I don't know which game/team are you referring to, but not being able to hire stars is mostly because of a full roster.
Urrghs



Joined: Dec 23, 2007

Post   Posted: Feb 17, 2011 - 13:48 Reply with quote Back to top

In my opinion, once all inducements are implemented (what is missing? only the wizard, right?) there is no need for a restriction concerning the TV difference.

If someone cherry-picks a far more weaker team, he will possibly have to face a strong Star player or some bribes etc.. It is kind of risky for him since he will not know what the opponent will chose in the pre-match sequence.

I like that and I do not see any needs for restrictions there. (BTW, hopefully the petty cash will be implemented soon, although this is not much of this matter since using the cash just alters the TV difference).
zakatan



Joined: May 17, 2008

Post   Posted: Feb 17, 2011 - 13:51 Reply with quote Back to top

Urrghs wrote:
In my opinion, once all inducements are implemented (what is missing? only the wizard, right?) there is no need for a restriction concerning the TV difference.


mercenaries and cards are missing too
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