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Christer



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Nov 15, 2011 - 14:02
FUMBBL Staff
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Hi everyone.

Some of you may have noticed that it is currently impossible to create teams in the academy division now. This is the first step in a renewal of the division into something more newcomer friendly, and easier to maintain for the people who are willing to help others.

As this first step has been taken, I wanted to let you guys know what's coming. Please note that the ideas here are mostly taken from the suggestions elsewhere on these forums and I will not take credit for the basic structure of this change.

The changes will mean a few essential things:

* Transition to FFB. There are virtually no matches played under the LRB4 ruleset and the old client anymore. Transitioning to FFB is obvious.

* Games are played using template teams. A new set of teams will be created for the explicit purpose of teaching. These teams will not be owned by any particular coach, but everyone will be able to start a game with them. More on this below.

* Non-progression. Obviously, teams will remain unchanged after games. No injuries, no skill rolls.


Apart from the technical hurdles that this involves, there's the question of creating these template teams and this is where you guys come in. I imagine a number of different teams at various TVs (skilled up of course) and with varying amounts of treasury (for petty cash purposes for example). I imagine grouping them up into a few different categories such as "Basics" (humans vs orcs, inducements etc), "Brawl" (bashy cpomb type stuff), "Agile" (basic two-turn TD stuff, passing, etc), "Advanced" (one-turners with low movement, stunties with TTM, more complex games with guard and sidestep on both sides, counter-skills).

What I would need is a set of teams that could be used for teaching purposes at various levels. Coming up with a list of "tutorials" to accompany these teams would be fantastic.

So, what suggestions would you guys have for teams that should be available in the pool of available academy teams? Keep in mind that although the majority of these teams should be geared towards newcomers, I also want a few setups which could be used by experienced coaches to practise plays.

Hopefully, this upcoming change will make Academy a truly viable place to start for newcomers, and also rewarding for the veterans who teach.






(harvestmouse)

Here are the rosters put together by Clarkin. Many thanks for the work you have put in.

The 24 teams:
"Deadly Dervish"
Amazon

110 Blitzer + guard
110 Blitzer + tackle, mighty blow
110 Blitzer + frenzy
90 Blitzer
90 Catcher + sidestep
90 Catcher + diving catch
90 Thrower + accurate
70 Thrower
400 8x Linewoman

50 Apo
200 4x Reroll
====
1410

"Khorned Beef"
Chaos

150 Minotaur
120 Chaos Warrior +block
120 Chaos Warrior +tentacles
120 Chaos Warrior +guard
100 Chaos Warrior
80 Beastman +claw
100 Beastman +extra arms, big hand
80 Beastman +mighty blow
360 6x Beastman

50 Apo
240 4x Reroll
====
1520

"Hatters Gonna Hat"
Chaos Dwarf

150 Minotaur
170 Bull Centaur +block, break tackle
150 Bull Centaur +frenzy
90 Chaos Dwarf Blocker +guard
90 Chaos Dwarf Blocker +mighty blow
90 Chaos Dwarf Blocker +grab
210 3x Chaos Dwarf Blocker
60 Hobgoblin +sure hands
200 4x Hobgoblin

50 Apo
280 4x Reroll
====
1540

"Pact Lunch"
Chaos Pact

130 Chaos Troll +grab
160 Chaos Ogre +guard
170 Minotaur +juggernaut
110 Dark Elf Renegade +dodge, sure hands
50 Skaven Renegade
60 Goblin Renegade +two heads
70 Marauder +extra arms
350 7x Marauder

50 Apo
280 4x Reroll
====
1430

"Darkness Falls"
Dark Elf

120 Blitzer +dauntless
120 Blitzer +tackle
120 Blitzer +dodge
100 Blitzer
150 Witch Elf +wrestle, diving tackle
110 Witch Elf
110 Assassin +sidestep
90 Assassin
100 Runner +nerves of steel
80 Runner
280 4x Lineman

50 Apo
200 4x Reroll
====
1710

"Slow but Sturdy"
Dwarf

110 Slayer +Mighty Blow
110 Slayer +Juggernaut
80 Blitzer
100 Blitzer +Fend
120 Runner +Kick-Off Return, Pass
80 Runner
90 Blocker +Guard
90 Blocker +Stand Firm
90 Blocker +Grab
300 4x Blocker
160 Deathroller

50 Apo
200 4x Re-Roll
====
1580

"Like A Pro"
Elf

130 Blitzer +dodge
150 Blitzer +tackle, leap
120 Catcher +wrestle
120 Catcher +dodge
100 Catcher
100 Catcher
70 Thrower
90 Thrower +accurate
80 Lineman +kick
300 5x Lineman

50 Apothecary
200 4x Reroll
====
1510

"Deys Cheetin"
Goblins

130 Troll +grab
150 Troll +break tackle, guard
90 Pogoer +sure feet
40 Looney
60 Goblin +side step
60 Goblin +diving tackle
60 Goblin +catch
320 8x Goblin

50 Apothecary
240 4x Reroll
====
1200

"Pie Monsters"
Halfling

140 Treeman +guard
140 Treeman +break tackle
70 Halfling + sprint, catch
50 Halfling + sidestep
50 Halfling + diving tackle
50 Halfling + Sneaky Git
240 8x Halfling

50 Apo
240 4x Reroll
====
1030

"Better Than Thee"
High Elf

120 Blitzer +tackle
120 Blitzer +sidestep
110 Catcher +wrestle
110 Catcher +dodge
180 2x Catcher
130 Thrower +accurate, sure hands
90 Thrower
90 Lineman +kick
350 5x Lineman

50 Apo
200 4x Reroll
====
1550

"Go Deep"
Human

140 Ogre
110 Blitzer +Guard
110 Blitzer +Mighty Blow
110 Blitzer +Tackle
90 Blitzer
90 Thrower +Accurate, Safe Throw
70 Thrower
90 Catcher +Diving Catch
90 Catcher +Block
140 2x Catcher
150 3x Linemen

50 Apo
200 4x Rerolls
====
1440

"Dem Bones"
Khemri

120 Tomb Guardian +mighty blow
120 Tomb Guardian +guard
120 Tomb Guardian +break tackle
100 Tomb Guardian
130 Blitz-ra +frenzy, strip ball
90 Blitz-ra
90 Thro-ra +kick-off return
70 Thro-ra
60 Skeleton +dirty player
200 5x Skeleton

280 4x Reroll
====
1380

"Lustria's Defenders"
Lizardman

140 Kroxigor
120 Saurus +Break Tackle, Frenzy
100 Saurus +Block
100 Saurus +Guard
100 Saurus +Mighty Blow
160 2xSaurus
80 Skink +Diving Tackle
80 Skink +Sidestep
300 5x Skink

50 Apo
240 4x Reroll
====
1470

"Bring Out Your Dead!"
Necromantic

160 Werewolf +dodge, block
140 Werewolf +side step
130 Flesh Golem +break tackle
130 Flesh Golem +guard
90 Wight
110 Wight +mighty blow
90 Ghoul +sure hands
70 Ghoul
240 6x Zombies

280 4x Reroll
====
1440

"Raging Vikings"
Norse

160 Snow Troll +juggernaut
130 Ulfwerener +stand firm
110 Ulfwerener
110 Blitzer +guard
130 Blitzer +mighty blow, piling on
110 Catcher +dodge
90 Catcher
90 Thrower +sure hands
70 Thrower
250 5x Lineman

50 Apo
240 4x Reroll
====
1430

"Decayed Vermin"
Nurgle

160 Beast of Nurgle +Stand Firm
130 Nurgle Warrior +Guard
130 Nurgle Warrior +Block
220 2xNurgle Warrior
200 5xRotter
120 Pestigor +Claw, Mighty Blow
100 Pestigor +Extra Arms
100 Pestigor +Two Heads
80 Pestigor

280 4xReRoll
====
1520

"Dere's a ball?"
Ogre

160 Ogre +guard
180 Ogre +break tackle, juggernaut
160 Ogre +multiple block
160 Ogre +piling on
160 Ogre +grab
140 Ogre
40 Snotling +sure feet
160 8x Snotling

50 Apo
280 4x Reroll
====
1490

"Green n Meen"
Orc

110 Troll
100 Black Orc Blocker +guard
100 Black Orc Blocker +stand firm
80 Black Orc Blocker
80 Black Orc Blocker
100 Blitzer +fend
100 Blitzer +strip ball
120 Blitzer +mighty blow, tackle
80 Blitzer
90 Thrower +kick-off return
70 Thrower
40 Goblin
100 2x Lineman

50 Apo
240 4x Reroll
====
1460

"Lowdown Dirty Ratz"
Skaven

180 Rat Ogre +Guard
110 Blitzer +Tackle
90 Blitzer
90 Thrower +Accurate
70 Thrower
120 Gutter Runner +Wrestle, Strip Ball
100 Gutter Runner +Block
100 Gutter Runner +Sidestep
80 Gutter Runner
400 5x Lineman

50 Apo
240 4x Reroll
====
1630

"Jump Up And Touch Down"
Slann

160 Kroxigor +guard
150 Blitzer +wrestle, tackle
130 Blitzer +block
220 2x Blitzer
100 Catcher +dodge
100 Catcher +sure hands
100 Catcher +side step
80 Catcher
300 5x Lineman

50 Apo
200 4x Reroll
====
1590

"Shambling Horde"
Undead

140 Mummy +guard
120 Mummy
110 Wight +mighty blow
130 Wight +frenzy,juggernaught
90 Ghoul +catch
90 Ghoul +block
70 Ghoul
70 Ghoul
60 Skeleton +dirty player
80 2x Skeleton
120 3x Zombie

280 4x Reroll
====
1360

"Wasted On Warpstone"
Underworld

130 Warpstone Troll +tentacles
130 Skaven Blitzer +mighty blow, horns
110 Skaven Blitzer +tackle
90 Skaven Thrower +extra arms
70 Skaven Thrower
100 2x Skaven Lineman
60 Underworld Goblin +two heads
60 Underworld Goblin +big hand
200 5x Underworld Goblin

50 Apo
280 4x Reroll
====
1280

"Blood In Short Supply"
Vampire

150 Vampire +Block, Dodge
130 Vampire +Pro
130 Vampire +side step
130 Vampire +tackle
130 Vampire +Guard
130 Vampire +Mighty Blow
320 Thrall x 8

50 Apo
200 4x Re-Roll
====
1370

"Asrai Aesir"
Wood Elf

140 Treeman +guard
140 Wardancer +strip ball
140 Wardancer +tackle
110 Thrower +accurate
90 Thrower
130 Catcher +sidestep, sure feet
110 Catcher +block
180 2x Catchers
350 5x Linemen

50 Apo
200 4x Rerolls
====
1640

Credits:
- Elf team name by blader4411
- Dwarf team by Rabe
- Skaven and Lizardman teams by quixote
- Vampire team by Calthor
- Wood Elf, Amazon and Halfling teams by Hitonagashi
- Nurgle team by Moonray
- Human team by PainState
Hitonagashi



Joined: Apr 09, 2006

Post   Posted: Nov 15, 2011 - 14:44 Reply with quote Back to top

New players:
Humans - Orcs - Basic starter
Chaos - Humans - to teach clawmbpo, and how to win by bash (reasonably high TV teams, obviously the new player takes chaos)
Wood Elves - Chaos - Low TV, allows for leap strip ball power to be demonstrated, and how to win using elfish tactics without advanced cagebreaking using SS.
Goblins - Halflings - Stunty crazy! Shows TTM, virtues of stunty.
Skaven - Undead - Mid TV, give the skaven a natural one turner, show the power of it, and teach the virtues of keeping it safe.

I'd have in the intermediate stages:
Skaven - Dwarves (how to win against bash with speed)
Dark Elves/High Elves - Chaos (using sidestep to delay a cage and break it up, and avoiding the claw bombs)
Pro Elves - Nurgle - Watching out for disturbing presence when doing passing plays, defending when players go missing fast
Low TV Lizardmen against high TV bash(orcs?) - In my opinion, lizardmen are the best team to use inducements (and to teach them) out there. Give a lizardman coach 500 TV inducements, and he's got a raft of interesting stars to pick from and interesting options(wizard + sili, morg, saw + 2 bribes + babe).
Dwarves Vs Orcs - Lots of guard, lots of positioning. If the new player plays as dwarves, you have to really appreciate positional play well to get them.

Then, in addition, you've got the specific setup stuff...one turns with a ton of different races. In order of difficulty:
1) Easy - Lizardmen, Elves with fast catchers, Rookie skaven.
2) Medium - Dark Elves/Humans/Necromantic
3) Hard - Norse, Chaos, Orcs

Ideally, you'd also want a set of volunteers to play against them and give advice. I'd help with that Smile.

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quixote



Joined: Mar 13, 2005

Post   Posted: Nov 15, 2011 - 14:55 Reply with quote Back to top

I'd also suggest a Norse team so that the new players have some experience playing with/against frenzy and crowd-surfing.
harvestmouse



Joined: May 13, 2007

Post   Posted: Nov 15, 2011 - 15:36 Reply with quote Back to top

I'm not so sure how much we should highlight clawpombs. I think possibly 1 on a team to show how to use them, and highlight things that can partially defend against them.

A high reroll low skill starter team (all hobgobs for example) I find is for teaching.
PurpleChest



Joined: Oct 25, 2003

Post   Posted: Nov 15, 2011 - 15:41 Reply with quote Back to top

my first thought on seeing the thread was: Academy has a future?

But i think these ideas might work. there are hundreds of combinations to be suggested though, o whther its practical i dont know.

perhaps juts 6-8 teams all at TV 1200-1400 with most of the basics covered on their rosters.

Folk round here need things REAL simple if they are to understand them and make them work.

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Barbarus hic ego sum quia non intelligor ulli
I am a barbarian here because i am not understood by anyone
Wreckage



Joined: Aug 15, 2004

Post   Posted: Nov 15, 2011 - 15:52 Reply with quote Back to top

I have been writing a bit stuff up about what teams I'd like newcomers to teach and what they like to play with and thought about teams with good passing game. What is often a demand of newcomers but simply doesn't exist.

Then it's of course interesting to teach with variants of a blodgeheavy legend elf team vs something like clawpomb chaos all over the place.

But when I thought about how to make a roster I realised that the best examples can probably be found in real life.

Therefore I want to suggest my current box pact team as an excellent team for teaching guard and assist work, blocking aswell as blitzing. So here goes:

1 Melnen Chaos Troll 4 5 1 9 Loner, Always Hungry, Mighty Blow, Really Stupid, Regeneration, Throw Team-Mate, Block, Guard, Stand Firm, Piling On
2 Telos Dark Elf Renegade 6 3 4 8 Animosity, Dodge, Block, Two Heads, Sure Hands
3 Dor Marauder 6 3 3 8 Mighty Blow, Claw, Block, Tackle, Piling On
4 Iolik Marauder 6 3 3 8 Block
5 Jenx Marauder 6 3 3 8 Block
6 Nor Marauder 6 3 3 8 Leader
7 Torn Marauder 6 3 3 8
8 Flyni Marauder 6 3 3 8
9 Lotus Marauder 6 3 3 8
10 Lor Marauder 6 3 3 8
11 Kurm Marauder 6 3 3 8 Dodge, Guard
12 Clix Marauder 6 3 3 8
13 Lektor Marauder 6 3 3 8
14 Yoda Goblin Renegade 6 2 3 7 Animosity, Dodge, Right Stuff, Stunty, Two Heads

Rerolls: 3
Apo: Yes

Fanfactor: 10

TV: 1480 (I think)

Maybe other coaches have good example teams too?


PS: This team is basically a team that gives a coach everything he could wish for but in very small potions and limited: There is a guarder but he can't take hits and it's only one. He has to be well placed.

There is a blitzer but if used wrong he can easily be taken out of the game. Also a valuable tool to teach how much of a difference it makes to use a real blitzer for blitzing compared to another player.

The team generally lacks strengh so the ressources of support players have to be used extremly well to avoid ending up with 1d blocks.

There is one 'two heads' Goblin that can bring a lot of variation into the game but to field him is quite a risk.

The cons and the pros of a Leader can be thaught and how exposing this otherwise useless player too early can cause the team great harm.

The solid big guy keeps the frustration levels of the newcomer down when handling his large weapon and teaches the roll of a supporter and why it's not such a good idea to have the troll piling on on the ground.

The elf as centrestone of the team teaches how to make a good caging game and keep the ballcarrier out of trouble.

The two blockers can be used to teach the basics of blocking and why you wanna avoid the 1/9 failchance of a blockless block.
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Nov 15, 2011 - 16:12 Reply with quote Back to top

\o/ For Academy!!! Smile

Are rookies allowed to use normal teams or is it non-prog template teams for everyone?

My gut feel is that if the rookies cannot use normal progression teams they will not use the division much if at all. It feels a bit too much like being sent to school. Wink

I'd rather only restrict the experienced coaches to templates only.
If rookies are playing normal matches vs each other in [A] the division won't look quite so desolate.

My favourite teams are.

16 flings (and a barrel of rum) - Cos it's fun & silly and can still be a game for both sides.

Humans - 11 Linos & 1 Blitzer. Similar reasons to above but a bit more serious The blitzer needn't start but can come on if you're getting your ass totally kicked.

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Shraaaag



Joined: Feb 15, 2004

Post   Posted: Nov 15, 2011 - 16:25 Reply with quote Back to top

When you are new to FUMBBL, but not new to blood bowl, you are more interesting in understanding how the client and the site works than basic tactics.
I agree with Koadah that non-progression teams can be abit boring for some players. So might consider an option to play a team with progression for people who are just looking to learn to play FUMBBL.
Some people also used academy to try out different races (don't know if it was many, but some did, among other things to avoid losing CR). I guess League can be used for that purpose.

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DukeTyrion



Joined: Feb 18, 2004

Post   Posted: Nov 15, 2011 - 16:35 Reply with quote Back to top

PurpleChest wrote:
my first thought on seeing the thread was: Academy has a future?

But i think these ideas might work. there are hundreds of combinations to be suggested though, o whther its practical i dont know.

perhaps juts 6-8 teams all at TV 1200-1400 with most of the basics covered on their rosters.

Folk round here need things REAL simple if they are to understand them and make them work.


I agree with PurpleChest. Perhaps make some basic 'early' rosters for people to play with. Perhaps not to much different from Table Top where you get a team with 6 skills.

Dwarves - 3 Guard Blockers, 1 Tackle Blitzer, 1 Block Runner and a M Blow Slayer.

Amazons - 3 Block Linewomen, 2 Guard Blitzers and a Tackle Blitzer?

Wood Elves - 1 Strip Ball Wardancer, 1 Block Catcher, 1 Kicker, and a wrestle, dodge and block lineman?

Orcs - 2 Block Bobs, 2 Guard Blitzer, 1 Tackle Blitze, 1 Block Thrower.

Humans - Accurate Thrower, Block Catcher, M Blow, Tackle and Guard Blitzers and a DP Lineman?

Just a few suggestions, but around about 6 skills is when a team really starts to take shape and starts getting interesting (but not too confusing)
mubo



Joined: Dec 30, 2008

Post   Posted: Nov 15, 2011 - 16:59 Reply with quote Back to top

+1 for the above suggestion. 6 skills is a nice mid point, and all games between teams should be fairly well balanced.

This is for teaching the client and perhaps BB, so no need to go into advanced rosters etc.
clarkin



Joined: Oct 15, 2007

Post   Posted: Nov 15, 2011 - 17:31 Reply with quote Back to top

A few set teams without progression is a great improvement for academy. It will mean it is super-fast to get someone to try out the client or bloodbowl as you can both jump in without creating teams. Newbies can happily then try out R/B/L with new teams to try team building and progression.

Totally agree with suggestions above to keep it simple. I'd say at most have one team for each race (less would be ok too), with TV 1200-1400 or so. 6 skills plus a spare player plus an apo compared to the usual starting rosters would make sense. There's really no need to try and build teams with crazy skill combos etc.
zakatan



Joined: May 17, 2008

Post   Posted: Nov 15, 2011 - 17:35 Reply with quote Back to top

As games will not be uploaded, some of the test mode capabilities could be allowed in the new academy. Thinking specifically of the /roll command now (to show chainpush ots, for instance), but maybe also allow the /skill add command to demonstrate specific usage of skills within certain in-game situations.

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Woodstock



Joined: Dec 11, 2004

Post   Posted: Nov 15, 2011 - 17:46
FUMBBL Staff
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People need to forget the old [A].

It is not about experienced people wanting to try out new races.
It is not about team development or management.
It is not about playing 10+ games there.

It is about an experienced coach giving a new comer to the game a lesson. Positioning, basic strategy, not hitting with the BG first block, standing up first, basic rules, that kind of stuff.
pythrr



Joined: Mar 07, 2006

Post   Posted: Nov 15, 2011 - 17:47 Reply with quote Back to top

excellent idea C.

will be good to see it up and running.

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koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Nov 15, 2011 - 18:00 Reply with quote Back to top

Woodstock wrote:
People need to forget the old [A].

It is not about experienced people wanting to try out new races.
It is not about team development or management.
It is not about playing 10+ games there.

It is about an experienced coach giving a new comer to the game a lesson. Positioning, basic strategy, not hitting with the BG first block, standing up first, basic rules, that kind of stuff.


Fair enough. as long as we don't get the "we're going to close it down because there are so few games there."

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