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Poll
Which is the most competitive?
Rat Ogre + 2 Blitzers + 4 Gutter Runners
16%
 16%  [ 15 ]
2 Blitzers + 4 Gutter Runners
68%
 68%  [ 64 ]
Rat Ogre + 2 Blitzers + 2 Gutter Runners
7%
 7%  [ 7 ]
No Opinion
7%
 7%  [ 7 ]
Total Votes : 93


Azure



Joined: Jan 30, 2007

Post   Posted: Feb 08, 2012 - 20:29 Reply with quote Back to top

Just curious what people think about the ideal Skaven roster.

I have heard primarily of just 2 options:
1) Rat Ogre + 2 Blitzers + 4 Gutter Runners...aka run with all blitzers and gutter runners and have the rat ogre too. This is going to tend to make the team higher TV which some people believe is too much bloat and thus not as competitive as...

2) 2 Blitzers + 4 Gutter Runners...drop the rat ogre since he is bloat and concentrate on the gutter runners and play a pure baller game.

I am curious if perhaps a better approach is to have the following:

3) Rat Ogre + 2 Blitzers + 2 Gutter Runners...the Rat Ogre provides some important ST to the team, and replacing the gutter runners with line rats on the field also increases the overall ST of the team on the field. Essentially running Skaven as more of a bashing team with high end agility players still.

So - for blackbox - around 1500 - 1800 TV...which of the three setups do you think makes for the most competitive team.

*Note: I ignored throwers because generally you take one for Leader and utility skills like kick and so forth - or you use gutter runner as ball carrier - that is a different discussion.
JimmyFantastic



Joined: Feb 06, 2007

Post   Posted: Feb 08, 2012 - 20:31 Reply with quote Back to top

2 Blitzers 4 GRs

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Kondor



Joined: Apr 04, 2008

Post   Posted: Feb 08, 2012 - 20:32 Reply with quote Back to top

No matter ranked or box go with 4 gutter runners. Skill them for stealing the ball and scoring.
Leilond



Joined: Jan 02, 2012

Post   Posted: Feb 09, 2012 - 00:13 Reply with quote Back to top

4 Gutterd and 2 blitzers, and Apo possibly before third match (when you start fighting a lot of MB)
Gutter runners manage the ball, also stealing the ball
The blitzer to make some damage, with MB, PO and possibly CLAW
The rest is simply cannon fodder
The Rat Ogre is really nice, but costs really really too much
Jackbedead



Joined: Mar 01, 2004

Post   Posted: Feb 22, 2012 - 00:03 Reply with quote Back to top

The issue is you can win, yeah, but you're fragile with 4 players at strength 2. I hate getting beat on and I also despise my GRs stealing all of the spp, which is mandatory on your linerats for the longevity of the team. Two GR for ball handling is enough for me, and the RO is necessary for controlling the pitch. But I understand where everyone is coming from.
SkavenLordVinshqueek



Joined: May 01, 2005

Post   Posted: Feb 22, 2012 - 00:21 Reply with quote Back to top

Due to the jump in TV it gives you when buying it at a later time, I generally go with a RO from the start, or not at all.
Still, the choice to take one or not depends on how you want to play Skaven.

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Big-Al



Joined: Feb 17, 2006

Post   Posted: Feb 22, 2012 - 00:27 Reply with quote Back to top

I like 4 GR +2 Blitzers. The RO always seem a lil fragile for a big guy. Your blitzers will be your killers. As far as GR hogging SPP, I haven't found it too hard to just hand the ball off and set up screens using the GR deep in the opponents half. Similar to stall but specifically to mange points AND clock. Lineman come and go pretty quickly. If they skill great if not just lower overall TV. Skaven lend themselves pretty well to a min max approach of team management.
Big-Al



Joined: Feb 17, 2006

Post   Posted: Feb 22, 2012 - 00:39 Reply with quote Back to top

PS I like developing one GR as the thrower. <a href="http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=player&player_id=8394343" tartget="_blank">http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=player&player_id=8394343 BasicallyI have payed 60k to give my thrower +2ma +_Ag for a cost of -ST. Seems cost effective for wins. Also Develop one or 2 GR as Sweepers/Safeties.
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Feb 22, 2012 - 09:15 Reply with quote Back to top

option2 is the only way to go. The Rat Ogre is the most over priced pile of poo BB has ever seen. Though he does work better in leagues than in blackbox, but still not great. He is just sooooooooooooooooooo expensive.
Tarabaralla



Joined: Jul 24, 2010

Post   Posted: Feb 22, 2012 - 09:22 Reply with quote Back to top

I usually go with 4 gutters + 2 blitzers, feeling that the GR is one of the strongest players of BB, I'd never go with one less than the maximum you can get.

But I'd really like to try 4 gutter + 1 blitzer + 1 Rat Ogre: +60k compared with the other one, but you still have a guy for reliable blitzes, while the big rat comes handy if you want to cripple opponent positioning. Still, it's a BG, and I fear I'd never use him.
SvenS



Joined: Jul 07, 2007

Post   Posted: Feb 22, 2012 - 09:33 Reply with quote Back to top

I love ROs but lately have had to reconcider their use.
Too unreliable vulnerable and expensive.
To use one well you have to blitz quite a bit with it and blitzing with BGs is too unreliable for me, especially when SWs and GRs are great blitzers.


Besides some idiot knicked my favorite converted RO from our gaming store about 15+years ago and I never really got over that! =(

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Igvy



Joined: Apr 29, 2007

Post   Posted: Feb 22, 2012 - 09:54 Reply with quote Back to top

Hah, nice poll. Personally until you get a bigger bench, take no RO and 2 gutters.

this is where you want to end up http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team&op=view&team_id=317810
SvenS



Joined: Jul 07, 2007

Post   Posted: Feb 22, 2012 - 09:58 Reply with quote Back to top

A key to skaven success IMO is lots of reserves so you can protect your good players for most of the game.
They cannot rely on 11 rats as many other teams might.

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Leilond



Joined: Jan 02, 2012

Post   Posted: Feb 22, 2012 - 10:56 Reply with quote Back to top

I learnt, at the price of a lot of lost matches, that the rats can easly fight their way to victory with 11 rats until 1150TV. At that point you NEED to buy a reserve and an apotechary (1250TV), because your gutters are enought skilled to need the apo protecion and your opponent is enought skilled to win more blocks and thus to put more often your rats out of the pitch, this in the BOX. In ranked, where you can choose your opponent, you can wait 50k more

By the way, this team win with the gutters
4 gutters are A MUST in a skaven team, ALWAYS
smiler6310



Joined: Mar 17, 2009

Post   Posted: Feb 22, 2012 - 11:25 Reply with quote Back to top

Ive found 3 GR, 2 SV and the RO to be the best starting roster for my style of play with skaven and aim to get the 4th GR asap.

In early games Ive found my rats easily outmuscled especially when KO's and CAS kick in. So for me the RO is key to provide some strength albiet unreliable and frenzy makes the sidelines more dangerous.

I keep the RO up until the point where the SV have skill up enough to take his place then he gets the boot. or he gets niggled or killed.
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