Kalimar
Joined: Sep 22, 2006
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 Posted:
Apr 20, 2012 - 16:10 |
 
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A question to all the rules experts out there: can Pass Block be used on a Hail Mary Pass?
The skill description for HMP states that this pass cannot be intercepted. Opposing tacklezones don't affect the thrower either. There is no catcher, the pass is to a square (not necessarily an empty one). There is no pass ruler used.
So I don't see how it can be used together.
What do you say? |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Apr 20, 2012 - 16:11 |
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WhatBall
Joined: Aug 21, 2008
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Apr 20, 2012 - 16:14 |
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| Garion wrote: | | No, you are correct. |
I think you just made his life a lot easier.  |
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Kalimar
Joined: Sep 22, 2006
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Apr 20, 2012 - 16:16 |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Apr 20, 2012 - 16:16 |
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He knew he was right anyway really. Probably just exhusted from looking at Pass Block code and reading the rule 500 times to make sure his logic tree was correct lol
Read anything that many times and it starts to make no sense at all  |
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maysrill
Joined: Dec 29, 2008
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Apr 20, 2012 - 16:27 |
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Yeah, the lack of a square under the (virtual in this case) pass ruler eliminates it.
Or, another way of thinking about it: even if Pass Block "worked", there are no valid squares to move to (aside from the thrower, I suppose).
Boy do I miss Pass Block some times (mostly when playing my zons, who have a very old +AG/+ST catcher with it). |
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Author of Firehurler (Twinborn Trilogy Book #1), Aethersmith (Book #2), Sourcethief (Book #3) |
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the_Sage
Joined: Jan 13, 2011
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Apr 20, 2012 - 16:33 |
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Incorrect. Pass block may be used to put a tackle zone on the thrower. The skill description does not specify the tackle zone must affect the success chance of the pass.
Also: if you target an empty square, that square is itself a legal destination square for pass block, as per the skill description.
However I believe that RAW you are correct that if you target an occupied square, putting a TZ on the occupant isn't a legal pass block (though I suspect this is an omission in the rules, rather than an intended effect of the wording). |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Apr 20, 2012 - 16:42 |
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Pass Block cannot be used with HMP -
HMP - "the pass may not be intercepted"
- "range ruler is not used"
PassBlock - "must be declared after the range has been measured" - it doesnt get measured.
- "The player may not make a move unless they can reach a legal destination... A legal destination puts the player in a position to an attempt an interception" You are not allowed to intercept HMP.
Kalimar is correct. |
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the_Sage
Joined: Jan 13, 2011
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Apr 20, 2012 - 16:52 |
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| Garion wrote: | Pass Block cannot be used with HMP -
HMP - "the pass may not be intercepted"
- "range ruler is not used"
PassBlock - "must be declared after the range has been measured" - it doesnt get measured.
- "The player may not make a move unless they can reach a legal destination... A legal destination puts the player in a position to an attempt an interception" You are not allowed to intercept HMP.
Kalimar is correct. |
Ah, I see. no ruler, thus the conditional for the skill is never met. (though I suspect it's not intended as a conditional but as a timepoint in the pass action)
| Garion wrote: |
- "The player may not make a move unless they can reach a legal destination... A legal destination puts the player in a position to an attempt an interception or with his tackle zone on the thrower or catcher" You are not allowed to intercept HMP.
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Last edited by the_Sage on %b %20, %2012 - %16:%Apr; edited 1 time in total |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Apr 20, 2012 - 16:54 |
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yup, also the second part under the pass block rule says - you must be able to meet a "legal destination" and this would not count as a legal destination. |
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the_Sage
Joined: Jan 13, 2011
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Apr 20, 2012 - 16:54 |
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| Garion wrote: | | yup, also the second part under the pass block rule says - you must be able to meet a "legal destination" and this would not count as a legal destination. |
With a TZ on the thrower is a legal destination |
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WhatBall
Joined: Aug 21, 2008
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Apr 20, 2012 - 17:00 |
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I would say you can't use it. This is one of those areas where the rules are not nearly as clear as they could/should be though.
I think Pass and Pass Block need to be looked at as two completely different actions, despite both being a 'pass'. The rules really should read "...that one of his players is going to make a Pass (action)..." The bracketed part is not really needed, but a simple capital on Pass would indicate it has to be the Pass action, which I don't believe HMP is.
You really could argue it either way if you wanted too I suppose. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Apr 20, 2012 - 17:02 |
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hmmm i guess so. I'm confused now, you can put your TZ on the thrower or catcher, with PB But I still think that the first part disallows it.
Though it isnt clear cut really -
To quote exactly - "The move is made out of sequence, after the range has been been measured..."
So I think that you cannot use Pass Block, because the pass is not measured.
| WhatBall wrote: | I would say you can't use it. This is one of those areas where the rules are not nearly as clear as they could/should be though.
I think Pass and Pass Block need to be looked at as two completely different actions, despite both being a 'pass'. The rules really should read "...that one of his players is going to make a Pass (action)..." The bracketed part is not really needed, but a simple capital on Pass would indicate it has to be the Pass action, which I don't believe HMP is.
You really could argue it either way if you wanted too I suppose. |
Heck looking at the terrible wording of HMP it seems that HMP does not use a Pass action at all, or even an action. Does this mean you can blitz and HMP on the same turn? The answer will be no, but the rules dont state otherwise, similarly you could argue you dont even have to have the ball to use HMP lol. |
Last edited by Garion on %b %20, %2012 - %17:%Apr; edited 1 time in total |
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Shraaaag
Joined: Feb 15, 2004
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Apr 20, 2012 - 17:03 |
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| The_Sage wrote: | | Ah, I see. no ruler, thus the conditional for the skill is never met. (though I suspect it's not intended as a conditional but as a timepoint in the pass action) |
You can't intercept it, putting tackle zone on thrower doesn't help (Hail Mary Pass is a 1d6 roll with no modifiers. 1 is fumble, and everything else is inaccurate). And since hail mary targets a square (not a player), there's no defined catcher you can put a tackle zone on. In other words there's no legal destination. |
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pizzamogul
Joined: Jun 13, 2005
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Apr 20, 2012 - 17:07 |
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| Garion wrote: | | you could argue you dont even have to have the ball to use HMP lol. |
Bombs! |
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