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WhatBall



Joined: Aug 21, 2008

Post   Posted: Apr 20, 2012 - 17:11 Reply with quote Back to top

pizzamogul wrote:
Garion wrote:
you could argue you dont even have to have the ball to use HMP lol.

Bombs!

It explicitly states you can't use PB on Bombs. That much is clear, the rest (of PB & HMP) is not clearly worded, like a lot of the rules.

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Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Apr 20, 2012 - 17:13 Reply with quote Back to top

seriously, you can, the skills says "player can throw the ball (note: not Pass) to any square on the pitch"

obviously this is ridiculous, but if you are a sad little man you could argue that you can throw the ball anywhere on the pitch regardless of where it starts.

But back on point. The fact no range ruler is used is the deal breaker which stops Pass Block being declared.
WhatBall



Joined: Aug 21, 2008

Post   Posted: Apr 20, 2012 - 17:20 Reply with quote Back to top

For the record, I am completely on the side of no PB for HMP. Agree that no range ruler equals no PB. I do think the rules are quite vague in too many ways though.

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the_Sage



Joined: Jan 13, 2011

Post   Posted: Apr 20, 2012 - 17:20 Reply with quote Back to top

Shraaaag wrote:
The_Sage wrote:
Ah, I see. no ruler, thus the conditional for the skill is never met. (though I suspect it's not intended as a conditional but as a timepoint in the pass action)


You can't intercept it, putting tackle zone on thrower doesn't help (Hail Mary Pass is a 1d6 roll with no modifiers. 1 is fumble, and everything else is inaccurate). And since hail mary targets a square (not a player), there's no defined catcher you can put a tackle zone on. In other words there's no legal destination.


Garion is right that no ruler means no pass block.

If you could, the thrower would still provide legal destinations, even though pass block doesn't affect the pass. The rules don't state that the TZ has to have an effect, they simply include the all those squares adjacent to the thrower into the set of legal destinations.
the_Sage



Joined: Jan 13, 2011

Post   Posted: Apr 20, 2012 - 17:21 Reply with quote Back to top

Garion wrote:

Heck looking at the terrible wording of HMP it seems that HMP does not use a Pass action at all, or even an action. Does this mean you can blitz and HMP on the same turn? The answer will be no, but the rules dont state otherwise, similarly you could argue you dont even have to have the ball to use HMP lol.


If HMP is not a pass action, does that mean you can do a hail mary pass, a hand-off, and a pass or throw team-mate on the same turn?
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Apr 20, 2012 - 17:29 Reply with quote Back to top

Nope, it doesnt state anywhere in CRaP that HMP is a Pass action. The skill description calls it a throw a few times and a pass once. But when it refers to a pass P is not a capital like it is every other time an action is referred to in the rule book. So technically you can Pass then HMP in the same turn.

Now for the really lame part - It also does not say anywhere that HMP is an action which means you can use a player to Blitz then use HMP in the same turn.

Now for the uber lame part - It does not mention that you have to be holding the ball to use the skill or even that you need to pick it up. So technically you can HMP regardless of where the ball is on the pitch. lol
Kalimar



Joined: Sep 22, 2006

Post   Posted: Apr 20, 2012 - 17:30 Reply with quote Back to top

@pizzamogul: HMP bombs? You can't be serious... *groans*

As a software specification document the rules have holes you could drive a truck through...


Last edited by Kalimar on Apr 20, 2012 - 17:32; edited 1 time in total
dsavillian



Joined: Apr 24, 2005

Post   Posted: Apr 20, 2012 - 17:31 Reply with quote Back to top

HMP bombs are the only reason to play a goblin bomber Smile

Better get coding! Razz

(My sympathies as a fellow developer)
Calthor



Joined: Jan 24, 2006

Post   Posted: Apr 20, 2012 - 17:32 Reply with quote Back to top

Kalimar wrote:
@pizzamogul: HMP bombs? You can't be serious... *groans*


Oh, yes, that's a very valuable skill for a Bombardier actually... Just stand in the back and fling a bomb every turn! Twisted Evil
Kalimar



Joined: Sep 22, 2006

Post   Posted: Apr 20, 2012 - 17:33 Reply with quote Back to top

And YOU ask me why this hasn't been implemented yet? Wink

Serious question though: the rules state the bomb can be thrown back. How does this apply to HMP bombs?
Sigmar1



Joined: Aug 13, 2008

Post   Posted: Apr 20, 2012 - 17:34 Reply with quote Back to top

Regardless of the mechanics of the skill, just the fact that Kalimar is asking the question is AWESOME.

Why? Because I interpret that to mean that he's reconfigured the rest of the 'new' client (or code or whatever he's been up to) to work, and now he's adding in those items that he didn't have before.

Which means, just maybe, we're getting close to that client upgrade that brings all the other toys! Whoohoo!

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Sigmar1



Joined: Aug 13, 2008

Post   Posted: Apr 20, 2012 - 17:37 Reply with quote Back to top

As for bombs and HMP, I would simply allow a player an attempt to catch (and re-throw) the bomb if it lands in their square after the scatter rolls.

Now, what if THAT player had HMP TOO??!! O_o

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maysrill



Joined: Dec 29, 2008

Post   Posted: Apr 20, 2012 - 17:42 Reply with quote Back to top

Kalimar wrote:
And YOU ask me why this hasn't been implemented yet? Wink

Serious question though: the rules state the bomb can be thrown back. How does this apply to HMP bombs?


They have to intercept it in order to throw it back. They would be denied that opportunity by the HMP.

Like combining Multiblock with Stab, it's just a really good combo...or should I say, "The Bomb."
Rabe



Joined: Jun 06, 2009

Post   Posted: Apr 20, 2012 - 17:44 Reply with quote Back to top

HMP + Bombs has to work (even if not from the beginning)! I need a gnome team with 4 HMP bombardieres (note: they get P access on normal rolls)! Very Happy

Sorry, don't want to sound demanding... but I'm actually waiting for that combo. If I have to wait for another long time, I don't mind.

This is all exciting!! *bounces up and down*

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propuppetmaster



Joined: Feb 27, 2007

Post   Posted: Apr 20, 2012 - 17:44 Reply with quote Back to top

why cant you use the pass block to stand on the HMP guy incase he rolls a 1... or even use pass block to mark the square the HMP is being thrown to?

The Pass Block Rules make 1 time the skill canr be used and that is when a bomb is being thrown. Because of this, the pass block would have to be allowed on a HMP, whether it is difficult to code or not.

Maybe have the sequence go...
1) HMP Selected
2) Target Square Selected (this square would show a ball to signify the square chosen for the HMP)
3) Pass Block Option Given
4) Pass Block Turn: pass blocking player must mark the operson throwing the hail mary pass or on or beside the designated sqaure.
5) The Pass Block player takes turn using normal rules

*note* What if someone wanted to give their pass block player diving catch to specifically guard against the HMP? You would be taking away this possibility, whether youy 'think' it will be taken or not...

Just my thoughts
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