the_Sage
Joined: Jan 13, 2011
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 Posted:
Apr 22, 2012 - 11:05 |
 
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| Purplegoo wrote: | I appreciate it's rare, it's lame, and it might be an arse.
But, if there is a correct way of doing it, it's worth doing right.
The odds aren't that long of Sidewinder being in a game. As for HMP, it's obviously rubbish, but someone will take it. Someone suggested a Pro Wardancer the other day, after all. |
After sidestep, tackle, and strip ball, I don't think pro is such a bad choice. =)
Also, I could imagine taking HMP, on a bomber or on a slann lino for the lulz (with up to 4 diving catch on the roster, surely inaccurate shouldn't be that bad?) |
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johnnih
Joined: Feb 26, 2012
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Apr 22, 2012 - 11:06 |
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| Purplegoo wrote: | There you go. Someone will be silly enough to take, erm, will see the unseen uses of HMP.  |
; ) |
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pythrr
Joined: Mar 07, 2006
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Apr 22, 2012 - 11:15 |
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| the_Sage wrote: | | Purplegoo wrote: | | Someone suggested a Pro Wardancer the other day, after all. |
After sidestep, tackle, and strip ball, I don't think pro is such a bad choice. =)
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Says it all really. |
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Rabe
Joined: Jun 06, 2009
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Apr 22, 2012 - 11:45 |
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There are some stars with HMP as well. I really like to take Barik Farblast for dwarves since he's a useful addition and ridiculously inexpensive (60k due to Secret Weapon). I wouldn't use HMP frequently, but in emergency situations (either defense of offense) it might well be worth a shot since the skill is there anyway.
And now if the opponent has a pass blocker... |
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Nekross
Joined: Apr 07, 2010
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Apr 22, 2012 - 23:48 |
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I often induce Zzharg Madeye, he's available for CD's or CP and with his surehands,pass,HMP he gives a good chance at getting that ball launched for desperation TD's/punts. Although with str4 av9 TS and tackle he has better uses  |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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Apr 24, 2012 - 19:05 |
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Well took a look at the rules in question.
HMP states that you do not measure range.
PB states that the skill breaks the sequence and the first trigger is right after you measure range.
Thus HMP has no range and PB is triggered by range. Thus you cannot use PB against HMP.
Now that is great and all..BUT PB if you read the very bottom of the skill description has a nugget.
You are allowed to use the PB skill on your own turn if you use Dump Off. You can move a PB player on your own team to catch the ball, normal Turn Over rules apply. Thus you no longer have to have your target of Dump Off be 3 squares or less from the thrower if you have PB. Granted this would not be used by the majority but it definitly presents an interesting tactical dillema for coaches defending against Dump Off passes.
Also PB rules are vague at the top of the description but at the bottom it states every player with PB can make a PB move to catch a Dump off pass.
So can an opponeet move every player with PB if it is a legal move? or just one player? Extreme example would be 11 players with PB could all move up to 3 squares to get in legal interception range on defense. |
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pythrr
Joined: Mar 07, 2006
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Apr 24, 2012 - 19:20 |
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Y U NO DIE THREAD? |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Apr 24, 2012 - 19:40 |
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| PainState wrote: | Well took a look at the rules in question.
HMP states that you do not measure range.
PB states that the skill breaks the sequence and the first trigger is right after you measure range.
Thus HMP has no range and PB is triggered by range. Thus you cannot use PB against HMP.
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yay painstate FTW \o/ |
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dode74
Joined: Aug 14, 2009
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Apr 24, 2012 - 19:53 |
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@PainState
| Quote: | | HMP states that you do not measure range. |
No it doesn't. It states that the range ruler is not used. That is not the same as not measuring range.
| Quote: | | PB states that...the first trigger is right after you measure range. |
No it doesn't. It states that the move takes place after the range is measured, which is referring to the point in the sequence at which it happens - see the FAQ for the full sequence.
The "trigger" is in the first sentence of the skill description: "the opposing coach announces that one of his players is going to pass the ball (but not a bomb)." Note that this is not the same as declaring a Pass Action, and I'd consider it the same as the difference between making a block and a Block Action - for the Action you are declaring what the piece may do (the limits of his options as defined by the action) that move, whereas for the act you are declaring what the piece is going to do (the specifics within those limits) that move.
Regarding the Dump Off piece, your target for the Dump Off doesn't have to be a player. You can be Dumping Off to an empty square. That doesn't mean your Pass Blocker can move to it, though: the very first sentence states that a Pass Blocker can move up to 3 squares when the opposing coach announces that one of his players is going to pass. Since it is you declaring the pass then you can't move your Pass Blockers.
As for the number of players with PB who can move, anyone who can get to a legal destination can move - I don't see it limiting the skill anywhere other than in that sentence. The FAQ states "Pass Blockers" specifically, so it seems clear that more than one can move. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Apr 24, 2012 - 19:55 |
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| dode74 wrote: | @PainState
| Quote: | | HMP states that you do not measure range. |
No it doesn't. It states that the range ruler is not used. That is not the same as not measuring range.
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I'm afraid it is Dode.
Page 5 "The ruler is used to meaure the range"
Simple.
| dode74 wrote: |
| Quote: | | PB states that...the first trigger is right after you measure range. |
No it doesn't. It states that the move takes place after the range is measured, which is referring to the point in the sequence at which it happens |
This is moot, because if you cannot move then you cannot put a tacklezone on anyone.
So can we lock this now Painstate, Jimmy, Whatball and I have cracked this |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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Apr 24, 2012 - 20:09 |
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| dode74 wrote: |
Regarding the Dump Off piece, your target for the Dump Off doesn't have to be a player. You can be Dumping Off to an empty square. That doesn't mean your Pass Blocker can move to it, though: the very first sentence states that a Pass Blocker can move up to 3 squares when the opposing coach announces that one of his players is going to pass. Since it is you declaring the pass then you can't move your Pass Blockers.
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You need to reread that bottom section sir.
The rules for Pass Block as related to Dump Off are listed as the one exception to the rules of PB.
"Players with PB may use this skill against a Dump Off pass. If a player performing a PB in their own turn is knocked down then this is a turnover, no other players may perform PB moves, and your turn ends as soon as the results of the pass and the block are resolved."
The only way you can use PB in your own turn is if it is triggered by your own player using Dump Off. Furthermore it even goes into detail about how this is a turnover for your team. Thus this is the exception to the first line which says you activate PB when your opponeet declares a pass. |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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| Posted:
Apr 24, 2012 - 20:10 |
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| Garion wrote: | | So can we lock this now Painstate, Jimmy, Whatball and I have cracked this |
Not until we resolve the PB and Dump Off question which I think is a niffty little hidden rule. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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| Posted:
Apr 24, 2012 - 20:12 |
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this isnt the place for dump off related stuff, start a new arguement thread cough er.. discussion thread. I just want to see confirmation from people hopfully Kalimar, that you and I have cracked it with those 3 quotes. Because that IS what the rules say, Therefore I truly cannot see any arguement for PB working now. |
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dode74
Joined: Aug 14, 2009
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Apr 24, 2012 - 20:12 |
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The only thing you've cracked is your arse
Pass Block does not REQUIRE that the range is measured at all. The statement within Pass Block merely places the act within the sequence of acts of a pass (see FAQ). Claiming that because the range is not measured that a Pass Block move cannot take place is the same as claiming that a Catch roll cannot take place for the same reason. Clearly a Catch roll CAN take place if the ball scatters to the relevant square. |
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dode74
Joined: Aug 14, 2009
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Apr 24, 2012 - 20:13 |
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| Quote: | | The only way you can use PB in your own turn is if it is triggered by your own player using Dump Off. |
How can you be Dumping Off in your own turn? Dump Off can only take place when the player is being blocked, and you can only be blocked on your opponent's turn. |
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