dsavillian
Joined: Apr 24, 2005
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 Posted:
Apr 20, 2012 - 17:45 |
 
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| maysrill wrote: | | Kalimar wrote: | And YOU ask me why this hasn't been implemented yet? 
Serious question though: the rules state the bomb can be thrown back. How does this apply to HMP bombs? |
They have to intercept it in order to throw it back. They would be denied that opportunity by the HMP.
Like combining Multiblock with Stab, it's just a really good combo...or should I say, "The Bomb." |
Actually, you just need to catch the bomb to throw it back. So if an HMP bomb scatters into a player's square and they catch it, they get to throw it. |
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WhatBall
Joined: Aug 21, 2008
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Apr 20, 2012 - 17:45 |
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| maysrill wrote: | | Kalimar wrote: | And YOU ask me why this hasn't been implemented yet?
Serious question though: the rules state the bomb can be thrown back. How does this apply to HMP bombs? |
They have to intercept it in order to throw it back. They would be denied that opportunity by the HMP.
Like combining Multiblock with Stab, it's just a really good combo...or should I say, "The Bomb." |
No, they can't intercept, but if it lands in their square, they can catch it and have the option to Pass/HMP it themselves. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Apr 20, 2012 - 17:47 |
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| propuppetmaster wrote: | why cant you use the pass block to stand on the HMP guy incase he rolls a 1... or even use pass block to mark the square the HMP is being thrown to?
The Pass Block Rules make 1 time the skill canr be used and that is when a bomb is being thrown. Because of this, the pass block would have to be allowed on a HMP, whether it is difficult to code or not.
Maybe have the sequence go...
1) HMP Selected
2) Target Square Selected (this square would show a ball to signify the square chosen for the HMP)
3) Pass Block Option Given
4) Pass Block Turn: pass blocking player must mark the operson throwing the hail mary pass or on or beside the designated sqaure.
5) The Pass Block player takes turn using normal rules
*note* What if someone wanted to give their pass block player diving catch to specifically guard against the HMP? You would be taking away this possibility, whether youy 'think' it will be taken or not...
Just my thoughts |
Because Pass Block can only be declared when the range rule is used. With HMP it does not get used. |
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dsavillian
Joined: Apr 24, 2005
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Apr 20, 2012 - 17:47 |
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| propuppetmaster wrote: | why cant you use the pass block to stand on the HMP guy incase he rolls a 1... or even use pass block to mark the square the HMP is being thrown to?
The Pass Block Rules make 1 time the skill canr be used and that is when a bomb is being thrown. Because of this, the pass block would have to be allowed on a HMP, whether it is difficult to code or not.
Maybe have the sequence go...
1) HMP Selected
2) Target Square Selected (this square would show a ball to signify the square chosen for the HMP)
3) Pass Block Option Given
4) Pass Block Turn: pass blocking player must mark the operson throwing the hail mary pass or on or beside the designated sqaure.
5) The Pass Block player takes turn using normal rules
*note* What if someone wanted to give their pass block player diving catch to specifically guard against the HMP? You would be taking away this possibility, whether youy 'think' it will be taken or not...
Just my thoughts |
Pass block player has to mark the thrower or targeted receiver. Since there is no targeted receiver, the only player you can base with PB on an HMP is the thrower
edit: this is under the assumption that PB can even be used on HMP, which it probably can't |
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dode74
Joined: Aug 14, 2009
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Apr 20, 2012 - 17:56 |
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I would say you can't use PB on HMP, not because of the range ruler but because there is no legal destination for the PB player (the second of the conditionals Garion mentioned). A legal destination puts the player in a position to an attempt an interception, and you can never intercept a HMP, therefore there are no legal destinations and PB can never be used. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Apr 20, 2012 - 17:59 |
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but that part of the rule is ignored, because Pass Block stipulates that you can use the 3Ma to stand next to the player passing or the target catcher, since there is no target catcher that cannot be done, however you could argue that you can move next to the Passer even though the extra TZ does not effect the Throw Team Mate roll.
However I do think it is clear that Pass Block is declared when the range ruler is used prior to the interception attempt, and since no range ruler is used, you cannot declare the Pass Block. |
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propuppetmaster
Joined: Feb 27, 2007
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Apr 20, 2012 - 18:00 |
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Garion & dsavillian: "Because Pass Block can only be declared when the range rule is used. With HMP it does not get used." & "Pass block player has to mark the thrower or targeted receiver. Since there is no targeted receiver, the only player you can base with PB on an HMP is the thrower"
Both of these statements are your interpertation of the rules. It is difficult because the people who made the rules didnt have the forsight to see these skills coming up at the same time. Maybe just go and ask the people who wrote the rules? Im sure you have some communication with them, Kalimar.
Having actually played football and actually played a position where I practiced how to intercept the ball and even going further...being skilled (pass block) to intercept, it isnt hard to see where the ball is going when the QB throws it in the air for a HMP because he throws it on a noticably upwards direction, which gives the defender time to get there to intercept.
And lets be fair here, HMP is a gimmick play to start with, the arguments you are proposing are to make the HMP more successful, when the HMP itself should be mostly unsuccessful. |
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dsavillian
Joined: Apr 24, 2005
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Apr 20, 2012 - 18:03 |
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Actually, you are correct, I'm sorry.
You can move the PB player into the empty target square according to the rules. |
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Kalimar
Joined: Sep 22, 2006
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Apr 20, 2012 - 18:07 |
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Nope. The ball will most likely NOT drop to the target square as it is scattered 3x like a missed pass. There is no interception path as no ruler is placed (and interception is explicitely ruled out by HMP). So the only remaining question is if HMP does trigger Pass Block. If it does then the only valid sqaures the PB player may move to are those adjacent to the thrower. This makes little sense apart from bein a bonus movement. It does not affect the pass at all (which is what the Pass Block is in fact about). |
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Sigmar1
Joined: Aug 13, 2008
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Apr 20, 2012 - 18:07 |
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I would like to see PB allowing the defender to move to or next to the targeted square, regardless of how the rules are currently written. (Mostly because we know much of the written rules are rubbish).
Would this be hard to code? Probably. But it makes sense to me that a player with the PB skill would have the sense to TRY and get under the hail mary pass if only to have a chance at catching the scatter, or putting a tz on the player who does get a chance at catching the scatter.
And really, a Slann catcher with PB would be a great defense vs. HMP. Not because they can 'intercept' the pass, but because they would be able to try and position themselves to 'catch' the inherently inaccurately thrown ball. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Apr 20, 2012 - 18:09 |
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Propuppetmaster, these are not my interprettion of the rule. It is what the rule says.
The rule specifically says that Passblock is only used when the range ruler is used and HMP specifically says that no range ruler is used, it can only be for this very reason.
This means you cannot declare it.
So the other points about passer and catcher are moot, and you cannot use Pass block to mark either.
| Kalimar wrote: | | Nope. The ball will most likely NOT drop to the target square as it is scattered 3x like a missed pass. There is no interception path as no ruler is placed (and interception is explicitely ruled out by HMP). So the only remaining question is if HMP does trigger Pass Block. If it does then the only valid sqaures the PB player may move to are those adjacent to the thrower. This makes little sense apart from bein a bonus movement. It does not affect the pass at all (which is what the Pass Block is in fact about). |
yup Kalimar gets it. |
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propuppetmaster
Joined: Feb 27, 2007
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Apr 20, 2012 - 18:11 |
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Maybe we should try to decide which is going to be the most fun?
If a player selects Pass Block as a skill, will it be fun for them if they dont get to use it? |
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Kalimar
Joined: Sep 22, 2006
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Apr 20, 2012 - 18:11 |
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Okay. A bit more technical then. The pass sequence as per the rules is very special. The interception takes place BEFORE the pass. If an interception is successful the interceptor gets the ball before the thrower has even thrown it. The thrower cannot even fumbbl it anymore or miss the pass. All that does NOT apply on a HMP. So it would seem likely (to me at last) that Pass Block indeed cannot be used on a HMP.
@edited for spelling |
Last edited by Kalimar on %b %20, %2012 - %18:%Apr; edited 2 times in total |
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WhatBall
Joined: Aug 21, 2008
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Apr 20, 2012 - 18:12 |
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Agree 100% with Garion. The Interception rules (pg. 22) describing the use of the ruler only strengthen the argument. |
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dsavillian
Joined: Apr 24, 2005
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Apr 20, 2012 - 18:15 |
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| Kalimar wrote: | | Nope. The ball will most likely NOT drop to the target square as it is scattered 3x like a missed pass. There is no interception path as no ruler is placed (and interception is explicitely ruled out by HMP). So the only remaining question is if HMP does trigger Pass Block. If it does then the only valid sqaures the PB player may move to are those adjacent to the thrower. This makes little sense apart from bein a bonus movement. It does not affect the pass at all (which is what the Pass Block is in fact about). |
well, to be fair, if you used pass block on a normal pass to an empty square and it was inaccurate, your pass block movement would still be valid
I'm in the "no PB on HMP" though. |
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