RedDevilCG
Joined: Jan 09, 2010
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 Posted:
May 12, 2012 - 23:09 |
 
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Purplegoo
Joined: Mar 23, 2006
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| Posted:
May 12, 2012 - 23:27 |
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Me? 
But in all seriousness, why does that matter? It's not rare, I see it often. Principles!  |
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johnnih
Joined: Feb 26, 2012
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May 12, 2012 - 23:32 |
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| Chainsaw wrote: | Wow, what "nose in the air" community members we have here!
People often do *not* see the board in the same way. There's many permutations on how a turn may unfold, and a follow up may or may not change how both players handle their subsequent moves. Talk about oversimplifying a matter... |
I think you misunderstood some members' posts. The way i understood "see the board the same way" was that blood bowl, like chess, is a "game of perfect information". No hidden cards (at least as long as we are talking FUMBBL), means that the two coaches have the same information.
And if you took my response as arrogance, I think you got me wrong. Perhabs it was the comment about "not playing for my opponent to make mistakes". I'd like to point out that that isn't so much an opinion as it is a strategical choice. Again I'll try to explain by comparing to chess. In chess, like in BB, you can try to lure your opponent into traps and it can be quite effective. However, if you want to play solid chess you would most often be better off assuming perfect play from your opponent. There is no perfect opponent, but assuming he always makes the correct choice means you have to find the "right" move everytime, which is a great way to evolve as a player. It was this mentality that I were describing when I said I don't want to play for my opponent to make mistakes. It is a strategical approach - one of many valid - I do not think myself better for employing it. As you say yourself, the beauty of this game is the many valid ways of playing it.
As for fend, I have already conceeded that I simplyfied things in my first answer. I'll try to be a more "thinking fender" in the future. I don't expect it to make a great difference though, but again, some games are won by the margins. |
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Chainsaw
Joined: Aug 31, 2005
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May 13, 2012 - 00:09 |
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It wasn't you.
In fact, it was pubstar and purplegoo that made me react that way.
It was the "we all see the board the same way" and all this talk of perfect information is nonsense and smoke screens. We all know that the comment was made as a "we all should be making the same play if we're good enough" which is something I really object to. |
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GAZZATROT
Joined: Apr 26, 2009
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May 13, 2012 - 00:12 |
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I agree with Chainsaw, I took Fend once or twice and then saw how it operated and decided I'd rarely take it again. Change the playing order as it should be (I believe) and it becomes somewhat better. |
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Forever fearless, sometimes stupid. |
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pythrr
Joined: Mar 07, 2006
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May 13, 2012 - 00:31 |
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what the hell are you all rambling on about
it was pointed out on p1 that the client implementation is correct.
stop killing virtual trees! |
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Were_M_Eye
Joined: Sep 24, 2007
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May 13, 2012 - 00:36 |
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| pythrr wrote: | what the hell are you all rambling on about
it was pointed out on p1 that the client implementation is correct.
stop killing virtual trees! |
Are you realy sure? I read the fend rule and it doesn't say when you have to declare fend. We have to get to the bottom with this! |
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pythrr
Joined: Mar 07, 2006
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May 13, 2012 - 00:37 |
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Yes, of course. because if we don't, children in africa will die. |
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johnnih
Joined: Feb 26, 2012
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May 13, 2012 - 00:38 |
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Honestly, I can't tell from the wording how it was meant. But when thinking of how skills like dodge, break tackle, tentacles, diving tackle etc work, I'd guess that you can chose whether to fend after the attacker chose to follow up. But 1. I don't feel certain at all and 2. I don't know if it makes enough of a difference to warrant the change (with its implications on game flow). |
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pubstar
Joined: Jun 13, 2009
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May 13, 2012 - 01:42 |
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| Chainsaw wrote: | It wasn't you.
In fact, it was pubstar and purplegoo that made me react that way.
It was the "we all see the board the same way" and all this talk of perfect information is nonsense and smoke screens. We all know that the comment was made as a "we all should be making the same play if we're good enough" which is something I really object to. |
I don't see how you could have taken my comment that way. I clearly expressed doubt at my ability to discern the correct play, and hit 'yes' on fend as a rule because of exactly that - I assume I'm often being outsmarted, and I want to minimize those chances.
I have a 40% win rate (almost). I stated my rubbish-ness directly. Telling me I have my nose in the air seems like a reach.
Perhaps I should not have said 'all coaches see the board the same way'. It would be more clear to say 'All coaches have the opportunity to see the board the same way' - the chess thing.
As a result of 'perfect information', and my assumption that the other coach is better at parsing this information, I hit yes on fend every time, because taking a choice away from a smarter opponent makes sense to me. That was 100% of the intent of my post. |
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Chainsaw
Joined: Aug 31, 2005
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May 13, 2012 - 02:28 |
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You don't get it. The point about fend is not taking the choice away from the opponent, but having that choice yourself.
By your interpretation, you should just have fend auto to yes except for frenzy, because the dialog is pointless. Except that's just the way you choose to play personally.
Btw, I'd appreciate it if people stopped comparing BB to chess. Chess is so much more simple*, and there are no dice, no probabilities.
*which makes chess strategy so much more complex. A good player is looking at 3 to 5 or even more moves ahead. BB is turn to turn, because nobody knows the dice, so strategies are general. |
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Coach Chainsaw's Dugout
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pubstar
Joined: Jun 13, 2009
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| Posted:
May 13, 2012 - 02:46 |
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| pubstar wrote: | Doesn't really address the point of client timing of popups, and I don't have any interest in rules lawyering, other people are better at that than I am. I've thought about the yes/no on fend quite a bit though, and thought I'd share  |
I get it. Honest. I'm really super sorry for posting a thought that wasn't perfectly in line with the topic. Lord knows that never happens here.
It was just a thought about fend, and how I personally use it. |
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DOTP!
3DB Highlander!
Fill the Box Grid! |
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RedDevilCG
Joined: Jan 09, 2010
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May 13, 2012 - 03:24 |
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Did you just quote yourself? |
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Chainsaw
Joined: Aug 31, 2005
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May 13, 2012 - 03:40 |
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Purplegoo
Joined: Mar 23, 2006
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May 13, 2012 - 08:33 |
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| pubstar wrote: | | pubstar wrote: | | Doesn't really address the point of client timing of popups, and I don't have any interest in rules lawyering, other people are better at that than I am. I've thought about the yes/no on fend quite a bit though, and thought I'd share |
I get it. Honest. I'm really super sorry for posting a thought that wasn't perfectly in line with the topic. Lord knows that never happens here.
It was just a thought about fend, and how I personally use it. |
Don't you apologise (although, the sarcasm-o-meter did take a reading there)! If people read undercurrents into posts that weren't there, that's their lookout. Apparently he's giving us so much credit that we have time to weave meanings in between the lines of forum posts about nerd board games. Who knew my life was so empty?
We've explained our perfectly reasonable point of view Chainsaw. If you're 'objecting', you're either doing it to artificially elongate the thread, or you just can't read. |
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