The_Murker
Joined: Jan 30, 2011
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 Posted:
May 16, 2012 - 17:50 |
 
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I like the angry man segment of the GLN. Can't always agree, but I love a well written rant. Here's a go at one.
I read a good net spiel about someone refusing to partake in the whole trend of wearing Crocks. I had to agree whole heartedly. They look stupid. Comfy as hell I'm sure, functional, water-proof, but way to emasculating and clown-like to risk even a mailman catching a small glimpse through the mail slot of me wearing a pair. I just couldn't live with myself knowing my non-existent identical twin would think me a complete goof. And not just gender specific. I could easier imagine myself having sex with an actual Crock itself than having sex with a woman wearing Crocks. Such levels of ridiculousness of appearance just don't compute for me. People in Crocks are not invisible. What’s the exact opposite of invisible? But it's not about the Crocks..
It's about refusing to partake. And I'm ultimately talking about punctuational smiley faces. There was a brief period of time in the 90's where "lol" meant you had enjoyed reading something so much that you had literally Laughed Out Loud while sitting at your key board. That time has passed. It is now often used "incorrectly", or sarcastically, or perhaps as originally intended. Used as an indication of general agreement, or an indication of massive disagreement, or just to show you like something when a simple sideways smiley face would be more appropriate. lol, without knowing the person typing, has lost its power.
I feel the same about smiley faces. The second the first person used a sideways smiley face sarcastically they lost their true meaning. You guys throw them around all the time, usually hoping to convey a light hearted tone to your remarks, but man, wasn't that ability lost the first time someone stuck one at the end of a 4 paragraph torching of their most hated forum rival and CLAWPOMB advocate?
Nothing is more meaningless than writing something obviously negative and sticking a  at the end of it. Used in the "proper context" or not, it's lost in a sea of misused or sarcastic smiley faces. They have no power. They cannot undo what you have typed. Cannot mean more than you have meant.
Yes, TONE is hard to convey on the internet, but smiley faces are not the answer. They are just gay. Like a keyboard having Gay Pride Parade. They also make you look like a person who can't choose his words carefully enough to convey his message in the desired manner.
Some of you guys are smart. Use your big words. Some of you guys are dumb. Use your smiley faces. Some of you guys are still in your early twenties and have a completely different idea of cool than I do. BAM! Smiley faces. Some of you guys are from Kazack-Yak-San. BAM. Smiley faces I just don't want to drink with anyone who can't type without smiley faces. And part of me hopes there is someone in this small community I would like to drink with.
Indeed, some of you are endeavouring to communicate effectively with 20 year olds from KazYak-A-Stan. Cool! But hey, why the faces? Even a guy from Turk-jazz-a-stan has been exposed to sarcastic, inappropriate, meaningless smiley faces, hasn't he?
Does licker light somebody up with the highest permitted levels of scorn and then ruin it all with an ill-placed digital grin? NO! He hates who he hates, and he doesn’t ruin it with mixed signals. Haters... hate. Lovers.. love. And for heaven’s sake, anyone with an education, choose your words, then hit the period key. |
Last edited by The_Murker on %b %22, %2012 - %11:%May; edited 1 time in total |
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Purplegoo
Joined: Mar 23, 2006
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May 16, 2012 - 18:04 |
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Having to edit forum posts always me sad. 
And I'm not even sure what I've left is OK. Be careful, shorternings are still not fine.
Have you considered how happy smileys make people feel? Observe the Spiro eyes effect;
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Shraaaag
Joined: Feb 15, 2004
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| Posted:
May 16, 2012 - 18:30 |
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I believe the ugly shoes are spelled Crocs, not Crocks. |
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The_Murker
Joined: Jan 30, 2011
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May 16, 2012 - 19:05 |
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UUUuuuuugh! That makes them even worse! Ugly, trying to be cute. My eyes. |
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Purplegoo
Joined: Mar 23, 2006
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May 16, 2012 - 19:29 |
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Just to give a serious answer (and I really do think you should be more careful with terms in your post, whether we mod them or nay); smileys can help navigate what is an awfully tricky form of communication.
Forum chatter can be an utter nightmare. We talk here in English (99% of the time), and we're not all native speakers. Those of us that are have differences in the way we use the language (the use of 'period' above made me shudder, the use of 'gay' as an adjective is one that I may use in person, but never would here, etc, etc.). Even those of us that come from the same square mile can very easily misinterpret meaning in the written word. How many great works of literature have people scouring over them hundreds of years later, chipping away for hidden meaning and themes the author probably didn't mean to sew in-between lines?
However, we have a harder job than literature. People play characters in forums, trying to stir the pot, trying to wind someone up, trying to generally be something they're not in order to elongate or divert discussion to their own ends; either on a whim or with a plan in mind. Also, conversation moves swiftly in many different directions, points are lost or magnified in scatter-gun messes of threads all the time. On-top of that, there is the bluff and double bluff of trying to work out if someone is 'trolling', whether they just have a belief alternate to the masses, whether it's a mis-interpreted comment... Really, if one were to think about it for too long, you'd go a bit mental. So I tend not to!
So; to smileys. If one wants to convey tone, they are a useful tool. Afterall, I'm well versed enough in forum chat around here to know that if I say something idiotic or controversial and go to sleep, when I wake up, half of America and the southern hemisphere has told me that I'm an idiot. Then I read what I have written, confused, and then realise it can be taken a different way, or something has been lost in translation, or whatever, then I have to explain (if I can be bothered)... If I think the addition of a smiley is going to enforce the text and deliver it how it was intended, that is helpful such that conversation isn't deviated by misunderstanding. Remember; the guy I'm talking to isn't across from me, can't read my facial expression nor my body language, and I can't instantly fix it if his face indicates he's not understood or he's annoyed.
a) You're an idiot.
b) You're an idiot. 
a) looks like I'm being confrontational and accusatory, b) looks like I'm sharing a joke with a friend or like minded individual.
Of course, it's an imperfect system. Pretty rudimentary. But rather than (as you contend) deviate from hip-shooting straight talking, a smiley can often say more about a line of text than a paragraph can. I for one have not been deliberately confrontational or argumentative (well - not counting logical argument, more over just being playgroundy) in this forum since I learned my lesson about such time wasting a long time ago, but I know what I write has been, on occasion, misuderstood over the years as being needlessly inflammatory. And that's how the world is, if you talk enough or have enough opinions, especially over something we're clearly all as passionate as FUMBBL or Blood Bowl, you're going to fall out with someone, somewhere along the line, it's the nature of humanity. As a sidebar, anyone that knows me in real life will tell you I'm obsessively paranoid about upsetting people, but I'm less so on the internet, partly because the form of communication is so blunt the only way to never annoy anyone is silence, and partly because I don't think anyone is really emotionally invested in an internet forum.
So, in summary, smileys may well be a blunt, rubbish tool. I can absolutely understand why they aren't everyone's cup of tea, but until someone comes up with a better method of adding meaning to text, they probably do a reasonable enough job for now. |
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The_Murker
Joined: Jan 30, 2011
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May 16, 2012 - 20:53 |
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I can appreciate that well written reply. 400 words to my 300 or so. Sorry about that. I tried to incorporate the spirit of your main rebuttal into the original rant to try and head that "defence" off at the pass, but it is well worth emphasising. A smiley might diffuse what might otherwise be taken too seriously. MIGHT.
If we want to get a wee bit serious about them, and delve into what I do find annoying at times.. hell, lets do this..
I see multiple occasions here where they are added insincerely. Someone is negative, often confrontational, and tacks one on, post summation. Now, no one I have seen has yet tried to fend off counter aggression by coming right out and saying, "Dude! Take a chill pill. I put a smiley face on the end" but they might as well have. No one would buy that argument, so why bother?
Others will use one, when I SUSPECT it's insincere, and force me to wonder just how strongly they feel about what they have written. Where was the sarcasm in their post? What part was light hearted? All of it? Dam it! I thought you were being clear. Cursed face!
Other times they flat out just don't work. Someone can make a perfectly benign comment, a valid observation, stick in a smiley, and STILL have someone take offense, be he English or Ooze-beck-A-stainian. What was the point? There is no convention that everyone follows. Ultimately it's the words that are evaluated. So if it's emotionally loaded content (crazy, I know) the smiley diffuses nothing and confuses those who would be well satisfied otherwise. (that's a bit of a dramatization)
Bah.. if the original words are well chosen I feel no need to insert a smiley for those who wouldn't understand otherwise. They won't "heed" it anyway if they want to reply.
In any case, thanks for your reply. On a personal note, and out of a mild and unfounded concern, I feel the need to point out to you that as of the time of this writing, 5 out of your last ten forum posts had smileys. Just a heads up. I'd hate to learn you were using lol as a verb and making air quotes with your hands on a regular basis IRL all of the time. (stats had to include your face above to seem more significant) Cheers. |
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The_Murker
Joined: Jan 30, 2011
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| Posted:
May 16, 2012 - 20:55 |
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And suck it all of you croc wearers. |
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Purplegoo
Joined: Mar 23, 2006
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May 16, 2012 - 21:12 |
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I have been known to say roflcopter in jest! |
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sann0638
Joined: Aug 09, 2010
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May 17, 2012 - 15:17 |
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This whole thread makes me lol inwardly. |
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The_Murker
Joined: Jan 30, 2011
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May 17, 2012 - 16:12 |
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| sann0638 wrote: | | This whole thread makes me lol inwardly. |
Me too. I have a pair of white rubbery shoes, Croc-ish rips offs, with slightly different styling. I wore them in "public" once for 20 seconds when I had to race out to the street because I left my cell phone in the car. I'm not using the term hypocrite, but I'm no peach to look at on the average day I'm sure. My wife has nasty orange Crocs whose very purpose is to annoy me, or to indicate tonight she will have a headache. Grrr.
I use the term gay when I mean just what I have always meant, since probably the age of six. My public school gang would unsubtly use the term to basically equate an offending item or action with wearing a rainbow colour My Little Pony bomber jacket on the first day of school. Or anything with a bow on it. Same meaning in college, same in basic training, and I mean the same thing here if I think you are acting in a way that warrants a jacket.
Is anything wrong with My Little Pony apparel? That’s a personal question. If you are of like mind than you know exactly what I mean when I use the term. If not.. well.. a smiley face afterwards won't make it any easier to understand or less offensive will it? And it's not intended to offend, just convey exact meaning to like minds. If someone were to take offense I’d love to ask them why, and enjoy what could be a very civil conversation about how no one is special, everyone is equal, and marriage is a misery with a few tax breaks that as a Canadian I am happy to let everyone, of every orientation, share.
Having a blog about an imaginary football team that does battle with goblins and rat creatures is gay. Anyone like that here? Ooops. Me again. |
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pubstar
Joined: Jun 13, 2009
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May 17, 2012 - 16:35 |
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My favorite English lesson I ever learned was that italics are for Latin, and underlines are for... idk. Nothing good, I'm sure. Hyperlinks?
I had an English professor who would mark points off for these 'cheap' ways to convey emphasis. If you don't feel your sentence says what you want it to say without italics, you didn't choose the right words. Clearly, smiley faces are used to convey different meanings than just emphasis, but I think a parallel can be drawn. So in that sense, I completely agree with you: smiley faces are bad writing.
I also tend to agree that they're ineffective, due to the nature of internet communications. Simply put, smileys are ignored, and the words evaluated on their own. The problem, though, is that chat communications happen quickly, and the words themselves are almost never good enough. Consider:
Your 1db have been awesome.
-or-
Your 1db have been awesome 
The second version, with the smiley, looks like a veiled whine. I want to whine about dice, but recognize that nobody likes whining, so I want you to think I'm not taking it seriously. Clearly, a failure of communication, as I'm not communicating how I actually feel, and the opponent will likely think I'm whining anyway.
The first version, though, definitely looks like a whine. Maybe I'm assuming too much, but I think an opponent who is irked by dice whining will be irked by the smiley-free sentence 9/10 times.
How, then, do I point out in-game trends or events if I don't think they're a big deal? The problem with the sentence -smiley or not- is that it's simply bad writing. It doesn't convey my intended meaning of 'Oh, would you look at that?', and is instead open to interpretation by the reader. Given that the reader plays Fumbbl, he's rather likely to assume it's a whine rather than anything else.
The solution to bad writing, of course, is good writing. If you're willing to take the time to type out something clear and well-written, God bless you. I must admit, reading this thread has inspired me a bit, and I'd like to cut down on my smileys as well. But I can certainly understand the motivation behind those who don't. If you want to chat quickly and concisely, smileys at least give one a chance of being understood. They're bad writing, but they're better than nothing. |
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f_alk
Joined: Sep 30, 2005
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May 20, 2012 - 14:47 |
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Smiley sad  |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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May 20, 2012 - 17:35 |
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[quote=The_Murker]And it's not intended to offend, just convey exact meaning to like minds.[/quote]
Though you do seem to be aware that it might offend those who are not of 'like minds'. It seems that you are OK with offending them.
I think I'll stick with my smilies. It seems easy enough to piss people off as it is.
Languages live. Meanings change over time. The world is always changing. |
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The_Murker
Joined: Jan 30, 2011
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May 20, 2012 - 20:38 |
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Indeed. That's a very good point. The general or popular meaning and use of any given term or expression might change over time. But everyone's meaning is always slightly different. And here I’ve logged a pretty good description of what I mean for one term for future reference, if someone were to take offense.
I won't shy away from communicating as effectively as possible with one audience just because the use of some terms might be taken another way by others, who might read something in, or substitute their own meaning for mine. Anyone should feel free to tell me what they think I meant. It might say a lot about that person.
And I wouldn't shy away from asking them what they thought I meant, or shy away from conversation in general. Just like I wouldn’t feel compelled to insert smileys to get away with saying certain things or to increase my chances of being inoffensive.
People can and will continue to insert smileys with abandon despite someone else's silly forum rant against them, but despite that fact, I have a general sense that smiley use has decreased a very specific 0.55% in the last four days. Thanks for reading. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
May 20, 2012 - 23:10 |
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