The_Murker
Joined: Jan 30, 2011
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 Posted:
Aug 14, 2012 - 13:37 |
 
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A historical look at what sort of records it takes to place top 10 in the Human Leagues.
PREMIERSHIP
First Place Records (Season 1 - 7)
12-2-2 PacoSillas
11-3-2 anisdrin
10-1-5 neophyte
7-3-4 Menzogna
8-2-6 nufflehatesme
9-3-4 nufflehatesme
12-0-2 Aflo
2nd Place Records
12-1-3 PacoSillas
3-4-3 Ludovicious
7-0-6 Stonetroll
4-1-11 highsididy
6-5-5 OenarLod
9-3-4 Aflo
6-7-3 nufflehatesme
3rd Place Records
11-4-1 belshamharoth
4-1-3 Cribbleobblepie
7-1-3 FreeRange
2-4-0 jimjo
5-3-4 BooAhl
8-6-2 OenarLod
4-3-9 FinkAngel
10th Place Records
4-5-5 Afro
1-1-1 neophyte
4-0-1 SavageJ
0-1-4 vesikel
1-0-1 Romanowski
1-0-1 JanusGenius
3-0-4 Dunenzed
Number Teams with Sprints Completed
10,1,1,1,2,3,2
Thoughts?
Alot of us thought it would be pretty cool that first season, but obviously it’s hard to even complete a 16 game human sprint above 1600 TV. Humans just can’t seem to generate the cash required to replace the CLAWPOMB losses, not that may people are even trying. A few coaches are managing, and the usual suspects these days are Alfo, nufflehatesme, and our rock, OenarLod. These guys seem to take pride in playing humans in the big leagues, a do it rather well. Let’s hope FinkAngel also becomes a regular contender for the Top 3 spot. Does he have the same guts as the ‘Big 3’ do?
One thing that catches my eye is just how easy it would seem to be to add a Top Ten trophy to a team’s bio page. Simply getting a half dozen matches in above 1600 TV has granted Top 10 status from the second season onwards. But it only takes one look at the drop in numbers from Seasons 1 to 2 to show just how un-fun it can be to watch your team destroyed easily by claw before they even have a chance to play.
I myself stopped trying because I didn’t like the games when I never even had a chance to play well, let alone win. And once up in numbers by turn 4, a CLAWPOMB team has a full 12 turns remaining to hunt down, claw and foul every last player. Not a pretty sight. I found the auto-losses frustrating early in my coaching career, as I didn’t want my beloved humans to have a losing record. But now that I can consistently get Conference wins to offset some auto-losses, I might take a run at the Premiership top 3 slots, as my trophy page lacks anything but consolation coloured Top 10 trophies.
So what’s the secret going to be to place top 3? I think a given is going in with a cash reserve to be able to buy the linos to hit 1610 TV whenever the team is close. And that cash reserve comes from saving money in Conference games. An Ogre on the LOS has worked wonders, and some wrestler, fend, side-step linos would be a nice touch. How about fend on even MORE players? Even before wrestle? Would that sacrifice functionality?
I think dabbling in the Conference at the 1550TV mark might be an idea, as you get a few ‘free’ Premiership matches in when the opponent is above 1600 TV, some of these even against teams light on the CLAWPOMB. But there are plenty of killers here too, so it could be a double edged sword, dipping into the cash reserves more than you might at 1200-1300 TV. One bad game at 1550 TV takes you all the way to 1200 quickly. Heck, it might even make financial sense to top up a few coaches or cheerleaders on a 12 man roster for one match only to hit 1610 TV. Get the assured Premiership game in, then recoup a few games, and go again. Nab the 1610 TV games a few at a time.
I’d love to hear more ideas on finishing, placing, and even (*gasp*) winning from our ‘Big 3’ role models. I’ll next take a look at the Conference stats. Where the majority of the action and competition is. Cheers. |
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garyt1
Joined: Mar 12, 2011
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| Posted:
Aug 14, 2012 - 14:35 |
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We need to ask Aflo the secret. He did great june-july and also would have won the conference too if he had a couple more games in that range.
Looks like he went for the no catchers and keep it just above the minimum tv required route. But I think a lot of people rely on their catchers. Myself i just started off with one for the first couple of games.
Going into the killer range above say 1900 is a different kettle of fish. |
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The_Murker
Joined: Jan 30, 2011
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Aug 14, 2012 - 15:21 |
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Yeah. Alfo has two mega stars to go along with great human skills. A triple double Diving Tackle Ogre, and a 4ST 4AG dodge human blitzer. Things you can really build a play-style and strategy around. Anyone looking to use and protect some mega-stars should watch his replays. Above 1900 TV? Pure crazy talk. A very dangerous area. |
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OenarLod
Joined: Jan 26, 2011
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Aug 14, 2012 - 16:09 |
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I think it's not that hard to keep a good record in the Premiership if you are careful.
I'm just an average coach, but I'm able to keep a winning record and a team in good shape just following a few rules.
First of all, sweet-spot. I play most of my matches in the 1500-1700 TV range. Too high for the min-maxed teams, too low to face full developed clawpomb.
Then, leverage on your strenghts. I mean speed and guard access. Most of the bashers don't care a lot about guard, but you can easily have 5. A key for me is to have a solid core of skilled blitzer and a couple throwers/catchers for mobility. I had my best results when I was able to field a combined of 6 guards and 5 blodgers thanks to some double on blitzers. The AG4 blitzer was just icing on the cake.
Finally, stick to the plan. I don't mean the game plan, but the team plan. If I have to field more than one rookie / 1 skill blitzer and/or the TV bloats due to the ogre or some overskilled catcher, I just hit the reset button and rebuild almost from scratch. I've already done it twice.
Regarding the game play, I think I share the same view as nufflehatesme. I consider a tie against the bashers a good results, but I will make feel the pain for that. I don't care too much of stopping their offence, if I'm able to protect my key players and unleash pomb blitz and a few dp kicks on them. Usually I have reserve but they don't. It works surprisingly well (7/3/1 against chaos, 6/1/1 against chaos pact). It works less on nurgle (3/3/5), but this team has some peculiar aspects I still need to experiment how to deal about.
Aflo is a school on itself, I will let Herr Schmerz do |
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The_Murker
Joined: Jan 30, 2011
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| Posted:
Aug 14, 2012 - 16:51 |
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Cool stuff. Thanks very much. I do seem to have alot more success with Guard. Probablly one reason the Ogre helps. No choice but to take guard with him. I get stuck in the rut of thinking I need a pomb player, and if you don't get the cas in a game, you're in a deep hole. (and out of position) |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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Aug 14, 2012 - 17:14 |
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Well the issue of not finishing sprints I think is easy to understand.
It is a 16 game sprint. BUT if you are going for the Premier title that is very difficult to accomplish in just 16 matches.
The new model seems to be to hang around the cut off, logical, but then when you take those "hits" and get knocked back down. Well now you are having to play games in confrence to get back up to Premier. Thus now a 16 game sprint turns into a 24-30 game sprint. Thus only the coaches who play only their human team in the Box have a real shot at finishing the sprint. It seems to me that we only have 2 or 3 coaches who have the time and effort to actually play 25+ matches with one team in the box to accomplish the goal.
This is not a knock on the HPL or a 16 game sprint. It is just an admission that it is very hard for coaches who play multiple teams across R/B/L to finish the sprint in Premier, especially when they are Yo-Yoing their TV for maximum TV impact, meaning trying to stay right on the cusp.
On another note
Neophyte IMO showed the "path".
Bessenbruck This team had a lot of success.
I would like to point out a few things.
1)He put his "eggs" in the PO/MB combo. Check out his former players. (dont go to far down the list because it was a LRB4 before so the Blitzers are skewed on skill ups) Notice that IF he did not roll a +STAT or double he went right for PO/MB
2)He carried some DP
3)He played to the big strength of the Humans, that they can lay out the CAS. Now not as good as a CPOMB bash team. But enough to really hurt and short man the opponeet.
4)He only played the "fineese" game when he had players with +AG...which looking at his history, he had some really nice fineese players.
Just some thoughts. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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Aug 14, 2012 - 18:57 |
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| PainState wrote: |
This is not a knock on the HPL or a 16 game sprint. It is just an admission that it is very hard for coaches who play multiple teams across R/B/L to finish the sprint in Premier, especially when they are Yo-Yoing their TV for maximum TV impact, meaning trying to stay right on the cusp.
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Is there a case for cutting the Sprint to 12 or 10 games?
My new team is still at only 1200TV after 13 games.
What would suit me better would be to be able to waive tight TV matching and be able to play anyone to get some points, win or lose.
Remember that in those old Sprints you had to play above 1700TV.  |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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Aug 14, 2012 - 19:47 |
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koadah I dont think any structural changes need to be made. The 1600 TV level is perfetly fine and so is the # of games for the sprint.
IMO real issue is that there is just not enough hard core "human" coaches, the Fraternity is a really small one. Sure there are a lot of coaches who throw out that human team from time to time. But how many are really hard core? 75+% of their B or R matches are with Humans?
Cause in the end the HPL caters to those coaches. And as the stats are proving, there just aint many of us.
Now lets say it is decided to drop it down to a 10 game sprint. That would reward the coaches who do not play all the time and they would have a shot to compete for some hardware. Is that bad? not really. Does it penalize the coaches who do play 12+ matches? Yes, they dont get those easy points from game #11 to #16 over the rest of the field.
There is no right balance for the # of games in the sprint.
In the end what we need is 10-20 coaches who are die hard enough to make a concerted effort to get in a 16 game sprint in the premier. |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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Aug 14, 2012 - 19:51 |
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And just for the grins.
I just added up my Ranked/Box stats for # of matches played with Humans.
796/987 Ranked
80 / 120 Box
876 out of 1107 matches = 79.13% of matches have been played with a human team.
And of course all 796 of my Ranked games are on one Human team.
Iam approaching Zen Master of Humanity on the awards page.  |
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The_Murker
Joined: Jan 30, 2011
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Aug 14, 2012 - 20:19 |
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I think breathing life into the Premiership might be good. I a shorter sprint something that might intice players? Dunno. But no changes should be made without the approval of those who use it most as is, meaning those 3 mentioned above and perhaps a few I've missed. I think it might be good to put to a vote, but really, if you cared to earn hardware, it wouldn't even take 7 games as is, but yes, a shot at Top 3 is hard for alot of coaches. I echo PainStates point, 16 games in the Premiership is closer to 30+ games total if you take hits. I've been there several times and just got sick of playing humans at 1600+ TV.
Love those observations about Neo PainState. I wish we saw more of both of you in the box. |
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The_Murker
Joined: Jan 30, 2011
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Aug 14, 2012 - 20:33 |
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OenarLod, I'm curios about a few things. The Vt squad. No surehands on the team at this time. How do you get those dropped balls on D when you need to. Or do you not bother? Even still, dosn't just picking up burn too may re-rolls?
How many tacklers do you roll with normally. I hate to be unprepared for the rare ocasions that elves, skaven,gobos or underworld are in the draw. (Ogres once too!) Not to mention amazon. |
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OenarLod
Joined: Jan 26, 2011
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Aug 14, 2012 - 21:09 |
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Missing the sure hands is just an accident. I retired a 51 spp catcher with no double/stats (but with sh) because I had a new blodger catcher ready to take it, so it's just a 2 or 3 games without.
I was used to run with three tackle blitzer, but I'm down to two now to make more room for piling on.
I have no problem with a shorter sprint, even if I play only humans it's not that easy to accomodate all this matches with my wife...
But all sprints are on a 16 games basis. |
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The_Murker
Joined: Jan 30, 2011
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Aug 14, 2012 - 22:37 |
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@..PainState.. Here's the thing I question about the POMB theory. The Box is the land of AV9. And it is with these teams we have problems. What good is a theory based on attacking AV8 thick-skull and hoping for CAS? (assuming mighty blow) We're a bit hooped if it dosn't break. |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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Aug 14, 2012 - 22:47 |
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PO/MB works even against AV9 IF you can resist hitting that YES button every time the pop up shows up. Only PO IF you have broken armor, even if you had to use MB on the hit. Rerolling Stuns gives you a great shot to get the KO or better.
KO results are just fine. We all want the CAS but take the KO and smile.
Also PO IMO is a must have skill now for Blitzers. It is the most powerful skill when coupled with Tackle and Mighty Blow. Sure at high TV the chances of using it are more limited. But going into a CPOMB fest with out it? Knife at a gun fight my friend.
A Non +STAT/Double blitzer needs: MB/G/PO at a min in Box, You then have 2 other skills before 76+ to play with and tweak your guy. I would say as a sidenote it is the same in Ranked but that build does scare off opponeets at 1800 TV range on GF.
And as a Bonus...When you pop that 1850 TV match and see you get to play woodies.....ROCK ON MAN!!!!!!! It will give you a warm fuzzy. |
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The_Murker
Joined: Jan 30, 2011
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| Posted:
Aug 14, 2012 - 22:50 |
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Done writing? Let's play. OLC 1 |
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