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neoliminal



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post 2 Posted: Dec 29, 2012 - 02:05 Reply with quote Back to top

This is a conversation starter. I may modify based on feedback.


Coaching - Are they easy to coach? Good for new players?
Scoring - Can they score easily?
Defense - Can they stop opponents from Scoring Defense?
Hurting - Do they really hurt the other team?
Fun - Are they just fun to play?

Summary - One or two sentences about the team.

Amazon

Coaching ????
Scoring ???
Defense ??
Hurting ??
Fun ???

They all start with Dodge and a good coach quickly gets them Block, making them very very hard to take down. After awhile it gets boring, but it's great while you have it.


Chaos

Coaching ?????
Scoring ??
Defense ????
Hurting ?????
Fun ???

The ultimate hurting machines. No one looks forward to a match against Chaos.

Chaos Dwarf

Coaching ???
Scoring ????
Defense ??
Hurting ????
Fun ?????

With just a few positions, it's alway obvious who would do what. When you get your runners, then the team really unfolds.

Chaos Pact

Coaching ??
Scoring ???
Defense ????
Hurting ????
Fun ??

A strange mixture that only works with experienced coaches who can handle the singular position players. You'll miss re-rolls.

Dark Elf

Coaching ???
Scoring ????
Defense ?????
Hurting ???
Fun ???

Elves that run, only most of the teams you see just pass. One of the few agility teams that can actually defend a TD.

Dwarf

Coaching ??
Scoring ?
Defense ????
Hurting ????
Fun ???

No movement means everyone has to do their job and stay in position and not get hurt. Not everyone can deal with that kind of pressure.

Elf

Coaching ????
Scoring ????
Defense ???
Hurting ??
Fun ?????

A great mix of skills to start on an elf team and decent re-roll costs. Weak armor means you'll lose the players on the pitch as your opponent marches to a TD.

Goblin

Coaching ???
Scoring ?????
Defense ??
Hurting ?
Fun ?????

Hope you like your players dead, injured or thrown. That's pretty much all you get, but it's hilarious.

Halfling

Coaching ????
Scoring ?????
Defense ??
Hurting ?
Fun ?????

Like the goblins, stunty makes for easy scoring, but fragile players. The fun is in throwing the team mates around the pitch.

High Elf

Coaching ??
Scoring ????
Defense ???
Hurting ??
Fun ????

One of the hardest teams to play well, but amazing if they get the skills in place. As with most elf teams, passing is paramount.

Human

Coaching ?????
Scoring ????
Defense ????
Hurting ???
Fun ????

The everything team that most teams are based on. Skills for almost everything you need to do and more, making them easy to coach.

Khemri

Coaching ??
Scoring ??
Defense ????
Hurting ?????
Fun ???

Like picking up the ball? Better have some more re-rolls handy.

Lizardman

Coaching ???
Scoring ?????
Defense ???
Hurting ???
Fun ????

Strong big guys who get marked, fast scorers who get injured. The best and worst of both worlds.

Necromantic

Coaching ??
Scoring ????
Defense ?????
Hurting ????
Fun ????

A little of everything means more fun but having so many choices makes it harder to coach. Powerhouse team if they get to higher levels.

Norse

Coaching ???
Scoring ??
Defense ????
Hurting ????
Fun ???

They all start with block, but they aren't getting dodge any time soon. Beer and pretzels are pretty much required and expect them to get hurt.

Nurgle

Coaching ?
Scoring ?
Defense ????
Hurting ????
Fun ???

Why not add some mutations to your life? Not easy to coach.

Ogre

Coaching ??
Scoring ???
Defense ???
Hurting ???
Fun ??

One of the hardest teams to coach because most of the team can't move when they fail their roll. Snotlings are also pretty squishy meaning you'll have to buy lots of them.

Orc

Coaching ?????
Scoring ????
Defense ????
Hurting ????
Fun ?????

Probably the easiest team to start with because the high armor value makes your mistakes less costly. Nice skill choices give you a variety of ways to play.

Skaven

Coaching ???
Scoring ?????
Defense ???
Hurting ???
Fun ????

Just about the scoring and pretty much nothing else. Movement so high, they can actually score in one turn.

Slann

Coaching ?
Scoring ?????
Defense ????
Hurting ??
Fun ???

Leap and lots of it. Hard to stop from getting to the ball.

Undead

Coaching ???
Scoring ???
Defense ???
Hurting ?????
Fun ???

Good, old fashioned, bashing team. No passing game but you will sure put a hurting on your opponents.

Underworld

Coaching ??
Scoring ??
Defense ????
Hurting ?????
Fun ???

Very strange mix but everyone can mutate! Two players you need to protect at all times make them hard to coach.

Vampire

Coaching ?
Scoring ??
Defense ??
Hurting ???
Fun ????

Probably the hardest team to play well. Thralls are targets for both the opponent and your own team members!

Wood Elf

Coaching ????
Scoring ?????
Defense ???
Hurting ?
Fun ????

Other than Skaven, the fastest scoring players around. War Dancers are worth the price of admission because they are probably the best starting player in the game.


Last edited by neoliminal on Jan 01, 2013 - 19:25; edited 2 times in total
Synn



Joined: Dec 13, 2004

Post   Posted: Dec 29, 2012 - 02:12 Reply with quote Back to top

Do like this.

I think the notion of "coachability" is interesting.

While chaos can be easy to coach if you go the derp route, they can be very challenging to coach presuming you don't rinse, lather, and repeat.

While Humans are straightforward to coach, I don't find them particularly easy.

__Synn
Rijssiej



Joined: Jan 04, 2005

Post   Posted: Dec 29, 2012 - 02:15 Reply with quote Back to top

Halfling
Coaching ????
Scoring ?????

Did you ever play a game with them?
Maybe give it a try.
Overhamsteren



Joined: May 27, 2006

Post   Posted: Dec 29, 2012 - 02:39 Reply with quote Back to top

The coaching thing is weird, surely coaching must mean how easy it is to win and how easy it is to build and maintain a team.

Humans are hard to coach in my opinion since they have big weaknesses and their strengths are very diverse and hard to take full advantage of. Same with building a team, you have to build a complex and very precise team to really have success.

Khemri on the other hand is kind of easy, your strengths are very clear and to minimise your weakness you play a safe game grinding the opponent down until he can't fight back. Building the team is easy, magnify your strength with guard and damage skills and a good runner.

I don't know maybe Khemri are harder to play than humans if you are the ultimate noob? If we give the teams a power level from 1-10 depending on coaching it would be:

Khemri; Noob:1, Competent:4, Good:8, Top:10
Human; Noob:3, Competent:4, Good:6, Top:8

Oh and ogres. Surprised

Ogres; Noob:0, Competent:2, Good:3, Top:3

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Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Dec 29, 2012 - 03:31 Reply with quote Back to top

I dunno, Khemri are both slow (and therefore easily outpositioned) and have terrible agility (making it even easier to outposition them AND making it next to impossible to play the ball).

Sure if you're great at positioning so that you don't get caught out, Khemri aren't too bad; but even Nurgle can run circles around them if the Khemri coach doesn't plan properly, and Nurgle are one of the slower teams out there.

Humans on the other hand, while they are very hard to play and get a great winning ratio with, have so many skills and movement that if you do make a positioning mistake, its easy to recover from; and you can outrun many of the teams in the game if they make mistakes (although admittedly newer coaches may have a very hard time seeing these opportunities).


Another way of saying this:

If a Khemri coach does everything perfectly, but the dice are average for both sides, they can still easily lose the game. If a human coach does everything perfectly but the dice are average for both sides, the human coach will probably win, possibly by more than 1 touchdown.

Or another way: winning as a Khemri coach is ALWAYS a questionable result, whereas a human coach can steal a win if the opponent is bad or has bad dice, even if the human coach isn't that good.

(On your scale I would never rate the Khemri higher than an 8; probably more like 1 3 6 8, with humans 3 4 6 8 or maybe 3 4 5 7)
pythrr



Joined: Mar 07, 2006

Post   Posted: Dec 29, 2012 - 03:46 Reply with quote Back to top

Chaos Pact

Coaching ??
Scoring ???
Defense ????
Hurting ????
Fun ??

A strange mixture that only works with experienced coaches who can handle the big guys. You'll miss re-rolls.

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WHAT BIG GUYS? No big guys in teh box! Minmax cheese!

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neoliminal



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Dec 29, 2012 - 03:49 Reply with quote Back to top

Rijssiej wrote:
Halfling
Coaching ????
Scoring ?????

Did you ever play a game with them?
Maybe give it a try.


Yes, for several years. I made it to the finals in my league twice. (Although I didn't win.) Throw team mate was unexpected at the time and perhaps with more warning my opponents would not have been so easily fooled into letting me use it as often as I did.

I scored often, I threw my halflings at my opponents and I had no fear. Perhaps it was an exception and I should change the above?
Lorebass



Joined: Jun 25, 2010

Post   Posted: Dec 29, 2012 - 05:24
FUMBBL Staff
Reply with quote Back to top

neoliminal wrote:


Underworld

Coaching ??
Scoring ??
Defense ????
Hurting ?????
Fun ???

Very strange mix but everyone can mutate! Two players you need to protect at all times make them hard to coach.


what two guys need to be protected at all times??? im seriously in the dark here. two blodge/+agi/big hand/surehands goblins? Storm vermin are for yays UNTIL they die. Waiting for that is the fun part.
MisterFurious



Joined: Aug 11, 2010

Post   Posted: Dec 29, 2012 - 05:29 Reply with quote Back to top

Chaos can dish it out, but they can't take it very well. I'd lower their defense.

Goblins can actually put the hurt on some teams with their weapons and fouling. I'd move them up quite a bit.

Chaos Dwarves can't score worth a damn. It's the team's major weakness.

Halflings won't do as much damage as Goblins since they are lacking weapons, but they do foul a lot and have two Mighty Blow trees, so I'd move them up to 2.

Ogre scoring at 3? That's crazy! A draw with an Ogre team is considered a win. They can lay the hurt on some teams though with all that Mighty Blow and fouling.

Underworld defense is horrid.

I don't get why you rate all the Elven races differently on Hurting when they all lack Strength access (well, except the Wood Elves Tree Man). None of them are particularly great at it.
Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Dec 29, 2012 - 05:48 Reply with quote Back to top

eh, dark elves can be pretty nasty at bashing, just because they start with so many block players that they can afford mighty blow on doubles instead of guard
pythrr



Joined: Mar 07, 2006

Post   Posted: Dec 29, 2012 - 06:56 Reply with quote Back to top

MisterFurious wrote:
Chaos can dish it out, but they can't take it very well. I'd lower their defense.


"he best defence is a good offence"....

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Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Dec 29, 2012 - 09:49 Reply with quote Back to top

I think they tricky thing here is how much some of these teams change at a given TV.

Take Nurgle for instance.
Quote:

Nurgle

Coaching ?
Scoring ?
Defense ????
Hurting ????
Fun ???


I'd probably go -

Nurgle low TV

Coaching ?
Scoring ?
Defense ??
Hurting ??
Fun I will miss because that is really down to personal opinion really.

Nurgle mid TV

Coaching ??
Scoring ?
Defense ???
Hurting ???


Nurgle high TV
Coaching ???
Scoring ??
Defense ???
Hurting ?????

To my mind, Nurgle are the worst team in the game at rookie level with the exception of Ogres only. I'd rather play nurgle than any other team in the game at rookie level if all i want to do is win. Playing against well coached Flings, gobos and vamps are usually a far bigger challange than playing against rookie nurgle.

At Mid TV I have found them to be a middling team, very good against some opponent's but still get their ass handed to them by teams like Undead, Orcs, Dwarves etc...

At high Tv they are very good no doubt, because they spam CPOMB have cheap fodder for fouling and for LoS. However they aren't as good as chaos for CPOMB spam because their RR cost and players are hugely over costed.

Similarly if we look at zons

Quote:

Amazon

Coaching ????
Scoring ???
Defense ??
Hurting ??
Fun ???


(how they have got more than 1 for fun I'll never know. Wink )

But I'd go -

zons - rookie Tv
Coaching ?????
Scoring ?????
Defense ????
Hurting ????

They are the easiest team in the game to use at low TV. (unless playing agaisnt Dwarf and CD), just man mark everyone, no one knocks you over, walk the ball in. On defence man mark everyone, no one can knock you over, opponent overblocking leads to ball carrier being exposed, knock him over and win. So simple and sooooooooo dull.

However at mid Tv it all changes
zons - mid Tv
Coaching ?????
Scoring ????
Defense ???
Hurting ????

Not quite as straight forward at this Tv. Need to be a little more careful with your players. get your blitzers piling on everyone with tackle. Then once they are gone you should win.

zons - high Tv
Coaching ?????
Scoring ???
Defense ??
Hurting ???

In high Tv match ups zons should stand very little chance. Their Low av finally starts to show, because opponent's should have 3 tackle and some frenzy in their team, amongst MB, PO and more Guard than St3 zons can cope with. So they are pretty terrible at high TV as a general rule. (However it is worth pointing out that playing in the Box will be different as the lack of tackle is staggering, and if you play zons in Ranked I guess you could in theory just avoid any teams that have tackle in them, which would make life a lot easier.)

edit: Oh and Undead have to be 5 star for coachability. They're simples.
neoliminal



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Dec 29, 2012 - 15:23 Reply with quote Back to top

Yeah, this is definitely about low level play and a guide for newer coaches to glance at when picking a team.

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xnoelx



Joined: Jun 05, 2012

Post   Posted: Dec 29, 2012 - 15:41 Reply with quote Back to top

In that case, it seems like a pretty similar exercise to the thread not long back about summaries for the new team creation page, although that was using only 3 criteria per race, not 5: https://fumbbl.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=22234

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NickNutria



Joined: Jul 25, 2006

Post   Posted: Dec 29, 2012 - 17:15 Reply with quote Back to top

Hm, i must admit i don't get what you call defense, Woodies are really fast and agile, they can get the ball really fast from the opponent when on defense, few teams are so good at it, so I would give them a 5 on defense.
A chaos team ona the other hand without skills and only movement 6 and 5 isn't a great defender against a touchdown, so why do you give them a 4 on defense? What do you mean with defense?
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