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Wolbum



Joined: Jul 14, 2010

Post   Posted: Jan 01, 2013 - 21:13 Reply with quote Back to top

Its unfortunate that you won't be responding any more to this thread as unlike a few other people who have come from outside FUMBBL to state their views,outside of one heavy critic, you have been pretty well received, not to mention well known. I think you shouldn't take the major criticism to heart, as IMO, BB is all about predominantly fun with a varying element of competitiveness rather than pure competitiveness, so I can relate to you on that level. Heck my fave team is Goblins!

I like the idea personally rating different teams in several categories and would love if you would consider writing up a summary based, as mentioned in this thread, on different TV intervals. Since I am a big Gobbo fan though, I think there is more to them than you give them credit, of course expecting to get beaten up and getting a few broken players is expected, granted!

Just to add my 2cents to the greens, out of a 5 star rating.

Goblin

Coaching: *
Scoring:**/***
Defense: **
Hurting: ***/*****
Fun: *****

I gave Goblins Coach rating of 1 simply because I think they are probably a masochistic choice to learn the game, especially if someone were brand new. Even then their lack of proper positional players and extra rules exclusive to their player type would make grasping the basics of the game very difficult. Not to mention the fact they are stunty which makes winning the exception rather than the rule.

I gave scoring and hurting varying ratings. I think on a normal or mediocre day, Goblins potential to score can be alright, but with the varying levels of stunty, they can either end up splattering themselves due to messy shoe laces or be miniature green untouchable ninjas. Not to mention when TTM is rolling hot.

Similar case with hurting. Two trolls with Mighty Blow, likely a deep bench so good potential to foul and get some good digs in, and the erratic nature of the weapons (Particularly the saw) can lead to the Goblins dishing out the hurt as good as they can get. And inversely, Trolls going stupid or turning over and weapons malfunctioning can lower this.

Defense, well, I was going by the general view rather than using the exceptional Gobbo coaches. Its difficult...to say the least, but not impossible. It takes a cunning and experienced (and lucky!)Goblin coach to snatch a ball off an enemy offence.

Fun I gave five. In fact I started with Goblins and "learned" BB from them. While certainly they can make you want to strangle them and fire the lot after a particularly bad match or so, they are definitely a team filled with the most devious and wacky roster in the Blood Bowl world and while they can have bad days, nine times out of ten they are always an enjoyable team to coach and why I always find myself returning to ramp up some Gobbo fun.
blader4411



Joined: Oct 18, 2009

Post   Posted: Jan 01, 2013 - 22:35 Reply with quote Back to top

Out of curiosity, do we have any idea of the current status of Academy? The last blog update I saw was some months ago Razz
Woodstock



Joined: Dec 11, 2004

Post   Posted: Jan 01, 2013 - 22:42
FUMBBL Staff
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If you didn't hear any thing, that is the latest state.

Back on topic, the topic and location of this thread are pretty obvious. Given the OP has probably the most TT experience of any of us around here, his opinions are more valuable then some negative nancies want to give credit. On low level, TT and fumbbl are not that different.

Well... unless you are a dirty boxing minmaxer ofc.
blader4411



Joined: Oct 18, 2009

Post   Posted: Jan 01, 2013 - 22:49 Reply with quote Back to top

Woodstock wrote:
I On low level, TT and fumbbl are not that different.

Agreed, but a key difference is the longevity of the leagues in question. TT blood bowl leagues, assuming 1 game per week may run about 10 games, 20-30 if a committed group of coaches are around for a season.

The meta of such an environment is vastly different from the perpetual league that characterises the main FUMBBL competitive divisions, R and B, and thus the tactics and team builds differ to reflect this. That's why TT experience is not as valuable as might be construed.
Woodstock



Joined: Dec 11, 2004

Post   Posted: Jan 01, 2013 - 22:58
FUMBBL Staff
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I think you are adding more to the equation then what the original idea was. Not to mention teams play less then 10 games on average here on FUMBBL.
Hitonagashi



Joined: Apr 09, 2006

Post   Posted: Jan 01, 2013 - 23:10 Reply with quote Back to top

My main problem with this is the dual assumption that it's aimed at rookies, and that Chaos/Bash is easy.

The only rookie TV easy bash team is Orcs. Chaos are a nightmare to win with sub 10 games teams! You should know this Neo, given your TT experience. How many chaos teams do you see winning TT tournaments?

I also think some of your offense/defense splits are wrong. You rate "scoring" as how good they are at scoring, whereas, that's not what offense is about at all. I would rate a team as being good at offense when it is good at being able to choose the time when it scores. This isn't purely about coaching. For example, Halflings may be easy to score with, but they suck at being able to time it. Against most teams, if they hang about for a few turns, there won't be anyone left.

I would expect, with your rankings, to be able to pick up a high "offense" team and be good at winning on TD's, whereas the actuality is anything but.

I realise what you intended by doing this list, but, I'd call it "Offense" and include how good they are at clock control in that rating. If a newbie doesn't learn clock control, they aren't learning to play Bloodbowl.

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Overhamsteren



Joined: May 27, 2006

Post   Posted: Jan 01, 2013 - 23:15 Reply with quote Back to top

I think a lot of table top leagues play in a style where you score as quickly as possible, either because "they don't know better" or just because it's deemed fun.

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Kelkka



Joined: Aug 14, 2009

Post   Posted: Jan 01, 2013 - 23:19 Reply with quote Back to top

Interesting topic. One thing that comes to mind about the ratings is the mismatch of obvious team strength on paper vs playstyle to win.

Difficult to explain, but I take flings and elves for example.
Clearly flings are one of the least bashy races out there, but often you need to play as dirty as possible to win the match. And have a deep bench to support the fouls and suffered casualties.

On the other hand, elves are more bashy on paper, but constant fouling is not necessarily a good tactic to win. Don't often have such a deep bench and surgical blitzing and staying mobile is key to win.

Perhaps there could be "attrition" value or something like that. To indicate about the dirtyness of playstyle team is suited for?
blader4411



Joined: Oct 18, 2009

Post   Posted: Jan 01, 2013 - 23:58 Reply with quote Back to top

Overhamsteren wrote:
I think a lot of table top leagues play in a style where you score as quickly as possible, either because "they don't know better" or just because it's deemed fun.

I'd expect anyone playing in the tournaments to be well-aware of clock control Razz
As for the leagues? Well, its hard to quantify given the huge variation in skills between leagues, not to mention the house rules that are often added to suit the players involved.
SkavenLordVinshqueek



Joined: May 01, 2005

Post   Posted: Jan 02, 2013 - 09:52 Reply with quote Back to top

Overhamsteren wrote:
I think a lot of table top leagues play in a style where you score as quickly as possible, either because "they don't know better" or just because it's deemed fun.

Isn't Blood Bowl in general meant to be fun? Wink

However, I disagree with your thought that a lot of table top leagues play to score as quickly as possible due to not knowing better, or because it is deemed fun. As pointed out by Hitonagashi (who, in my opinion, made a very good reply to the original post), good offense is (in part) determined by deciding when you score, and the coaching skill (aside from choice of team) for that is no different in between coaches who play in table top leagues, or on FUMBBL.

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Marr965



Joined: Oct 27, 2015

Post   Posted: Dec 29, 2015 - 22:13 Reply with quote Back to top

Hitonagashi wrote:
The only rookie TV easy bash team is Orcs.

I've found that if you're decent at placing your players (specifically your mummies), Undead can make a surprisingly good bashy team.
pythrr



Joined: Mar 07, 2006

Post   Posted: Dec 29, 2015 - 22:55 Reply with quote Back to top

wow. necro.

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Rbthma



Joined: Jan 14, 2009

Post   Posted: Dec 29, 2015 - 22:58 Reply with quote Back to top

pythrr wrote:
wow. necro.


no pythrr, he's talking about Undead Rolling Eyes
Antithesisoftime



Joined: Aug 20, 2014

Post   Posted: Dec 29, 2015 - 23:00 Reply with quote Back to top

neoliminal wrote:
Vampire

Coaching ?
Scoring ??
Defense ??
Hurting ???
Fun ????

Probably the hardest team to play well. Thralls are targets for both the opponent and your own team members!
Not sure you've coached many Vampire teams. Between Vampires and Ogres, Vampires are the easier team to coach.

Your scoring and defense ratings are seriously low for Vampire teams, and I believe this is because you haven't ever seen hypnotic gaze used properly. HG destroys cages like nobody's business, leaving ball carriers exposed to a blitz. Considering MOST ball carriers are ST3 players, and a Vampire is a ST4 player, you're often getting a 2d blitz on the ball.

Depending on the coach, Vampires can also do significant damage to an opponent, since every vampire has GSA access, with P on doubles. Think about that for a moment. If a Vampire coach desired, every Vampire on the team can have Block, Dodge, Tackle, Mighty Blow, Piling On, and Jump Up. I wouldn't advise having all vamps built to kill, but considering they're a 6/4/4/8 killer, they can strike just about anyone at any time, with other Vamps supporting with hypnotic gaze, even a single killer vamp can pick a team apart.

Now, the difficulty Vampire teams face is the same as Skaven, their basic linemen are fragile and vulnerable, and let's face it, skilling thralls is a terrible idea if it can be avoided, because you can't rely on your thralls to be on the field.

I'd suggest rating Vampires as such
Coaching - ??
Scoring - ???
Defense - ????.5
Hurting - ????
Fun - ????? (though I think I'm biased in this, I love playing my vampires.)
Balle2000



Joined: Sep 25, 2008

Post   Posted: Dec 30, 2015 - 00:24 Reply with quote Back to top

you're answering a post from 2012 Smile
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