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harvestmouse



Joined: May 13, 2007

Post   Posted: Jan 15, 2013 - 13:21 Reply with quote Back to top

dode74 wrote:

Why does renaming the Thirster as a Letter "not fit"? You might need to be a tad more specific.


I really don't know what to say to that. That's been the whole problem from the start.

This topic is now retreading the ground of the previous one. Unless it gets back on topic right away, it will be locked.
dode74



Joined: Aug 14, 2009

Post   Posted: Jan 15, 2013 - 13:32 Reply with quote Back to top

All I'm asking for is clarification.

This topic was always going to cover old ground. Lock it if you want, but I don't think it's causing any major ructions.
harvestmouse



Joined: May 13, 2007

Post   Posted: Jan 15, 2013 - 13:43 Reply with quote Back to top

Square pegs into round holes. Which was one of the major criticisms in the first place.

You originally said that the Thirster was the most powerful big guy in the game. You now want to change that to a Letter (which shouldn't be the most powerful big guy in the game, or even a big guy).
dode74



Joined: Aug 14, 2009

Post   Posted: Jan 15, 2013 - 14:07 Reply with quote Back to top

That was the aim, and it was achieved.

One of the complaints, despite that, is that the Thirster still wasn't powerful enough; another was that the Letter wasn't either: "A Letter should be able to tear apart an Ogre" was one comment. Well, I suggest one that can and am told it is too powerful! All this shows is that there was no way to get this roster right (in general - everyone has their own idea of what constitutes "right", but there will never be an agreement on it).
harvestmouse



Joined: May 13, 2007

Post   Posted: Jan 15, 2013 - 14:29 Reply with quote Back to top

Well 'tear apart an ogre' suggests they should be massively more powerful than an Ogre. Do you think they should?

Physically this isn't the case, however in warhammer a unit of Letters can tear apart a unit of Ogres.

Some commonsense is needed, and of course getting everybody to agree is impossible, however most will stay quiet if something is acceptable.

With a lot of rosters, I'm finding that there are too many positions added. Vampires and Lizardmen (for example) that have very limited positionals, but are widely accepted as fun and entertaining rosters.

The first thing I would do is remove the Herald positional, and make that the letter. I don't see any need for the 2, after all they are both letters in reality.
dode74



Joined: Aug 14, 2009

Post   Posted: Jan 15, 2013 - 15:19 Reply with quote Back to top

Quote:
Well 'tear apart an ogre' suggests they should be massively more powerful than an Ogre. Do you think they should?

Physically this isn't the case, however in warhammer a unit of Letters can tear apart a unit of Ogres.
This appears to be self-contradictory. Am I reading it wrong? They either are more powerful than Ogres or they are not. I'm aware of the comparative statlines.
Quote:
Some commonsense is needed, and of course getting everybody to agree is impossible, however most will stay quiet if something is acceptable.
And who is to say that most have not stayed quiet with the current roster? The problem is that the only voices which make themselves known are the dissenters. Polls are, frankly, useless and usually contradictory. Nobody has any idea how "the community" at large has taken to the team. The only stats which might be of use as a measure is how often they get played and by what proportion of coaches.

Quote:
With a lot of rosters, I'm finding that there are too many positions added. Vampires and Lizardmen (for example) that have very limited positionals, but are widely accepted as fun and entertaining rosters.

The first thing I would do is remove the Herald positional, and make that the letter. I don't see any need for the 2, after all they are both letters in reality.
4 positionals is hardly a lot, especially including a Big Guy. 12 of the current crop of LRB6 rosters have 5 or more, and only 5 have 3 or less. That's not any comment on how much fun they are, just pointing out that 4 positionals fits in just fine.

Heralds and Bloodletters were not, as I said, our choice.

The roster plays well as Khorne, as a good few people have said, and is a fun roster which fits into the balance fairly well (with the data we have so far). The problem appears to be that most people don't think the positionals fit their WHFB fluff. I can sympathise with a fair bit of that. My question is this: if you were to keep the roster, and keep it as Khorne, but only be able to rename the positionals, what would you do?
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Jan 15, 2013 - 15:45 Reply with quote Back to top

Letters could tear apart apart ogres yes, but they don't need to be the same St to do so. St4 claw would suffice and fit the fluff.

if you had to keep this smelly roster I would rename them -

Pitfighter would be Khorne Thugs or Cultists either is fine. Though P access has to be dropped also M access on singles or doubles is a must.

I guess the big guy could be a daemon prince because he certainly isnt a Bloodthirster atm.

then after that you are stuck because nothing fits the players skills in the warhammer universe. This is the problem with creating a roster first then adding names to it.

Herald could be a Khorngor actually, he doesnt look wrong there, but nothing at all fits with the letter stat line and skills, especially not letters.
Hitonagashi



Joined: Apr 09, 2006

Post   Posted: Jan 15, 2013 - 15:47 Reply with quote Back to top

Garion wrote:
Letters could tear apart apart ogres yes, but they don't need to be the same St to do so. St4 claw would suffice and fit the fluff.

if you had to keep this smelly roster I would rename them -

Pitfighter would be Khorne Thugs or Cultists either is fine. Though P access has to be dropped also M access on singles or doubles is a must.

I guess the big guy could be a daemon prince because he certainly isnt a Bloodthirster atm.

then after that you are stuck because nothing fits the players skills in the warhammer universe. This is the problem with creating a roster first then adding names to it.

Herald could be a Khorngor actually, he doesnt look wrong there, but nothing at all fits with the letter stat line and skills, especially not letters.


Pitfighter -> Cultist
Bloodletter -> Pitfighter
Herald -> Khorngor
Bloodthirster -> Daemon Prince

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Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Jan 15, 2013 - 15:48 Reply with quote Back to top

what is a pitfighter and why is he regenerating?

and why does he have access to A skills?
Hitonagashi



Joined: Apr 09, 2006

Post   Posted: Jan 15, 2013 - 15:57 Reply with quote Back to top

Think a Roman Gladiator, fighhting in Khorne's arena.

He fights unarmoured, and frequently fights against much bigger foes (lions, Minotaurs etc) for sport. Alternately, think of a spanish bullfighter. Diving and dodging out of the way.

Regnerating? Search me. Maybe a lifetime of getting gored has helped him recover faster from injuries? Maybe Khorne's chosen fighters are blessed by their god? Easy enough to come up with some reason for one of the chosen of Khorne...

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Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Jan 15, 2013 - 16:01 Reply with quote Back to top

There is a wealth of material to draw from having to create silly nonsensical fluff shouldnt be required.

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ilpars



Joined: Nov 14, 2012

Post   Posted: Jan 15, 2013 - 16:06 Reply with quote Back to top

Fluffwise, pitfighters are professional fighters who does gladiator-like combats against other pitfighters generally in a pit designed for this purpose. I think pitfighting is legal in most of the Empire. It really does not fit to Chaos.
Overhamsteren



Joined: May 27, 2006

Post   Posted: Jan 15, 2013 - 16:16 Reply with quote Back to top

Playing on the Khorne Team is Khorne's punishment for daemons who have failed him, striking a terrible pact with The Changer of Ways Khorne has had the strength sapped from the daemons and inserted an obsession to play ball into their will, and so the daemons must roam the pitches weak of body and their minds always ravaged by their lust for blood and carnage being trampled upon by an unnatural attraction to a leather ball.

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harvestmouse



Joined: May 13, 2007

Post   Posted: Jan 15, 2013 - 16:33 Reply with quote Back to top

No we aren't doing this again.

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