Wreckage
Joined: Aug 15, 2004
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 Posted:
Jan 29, 2013 - 14:06 |
 
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This is a simple idea I have probably mentioned a couple of times.
But I figured I'll just put it out here to you ungratefull bunch, just to have it written down and proposed somewhere.
The issue
Currently the site doesn't follow the concession rules, or rather has a mild restriction on using them because they are not really suitable for an open environment.
Why?
Because by playing the game full two halves you put your players at risk. You take a risk for a possible benefit.
When conceeding one side gets lots of additional money and 2 MVPs at no risk.
The other side doesn't have any disadvantage at all as long as it doesn't have any 51+ SPP players. It loses one FF but that is actually an advantage now.
Fumbbl therefore houseruled a concession needs to have a reasonable in-game-cause.
Now it is doubtfull how much of a place the concession rules in the game have to begin with. It is made clear in the rules that such a behavior is heavily despised, whatever that means.
The point is that if you play in a closed league where the amount of games you play matters, giving up a game, recieving no money is a loss for both sides.
The rules are usually fine for open play but in that case they just turned out not to work at all.
That is why fumbbl made those rules about it.
On the other hand an online environment needs concession rules badly.
Particularly because the real life gets in our way all the time.
And I don't think anyone is really excluded from that.
So what do you do when you have a real life emergency? (Not something like a burning house, but maybe just something as arbitrary as some friends coming by.)
You have 3 options:
1. Continue the game... that is nice towards the community but not towards your friends.
2. Conceeding.. that is nice towards your opponent but it may be illegal depending on the game situation. In any case would it be an exploit since you don't really conceed because of the game situation.
3. Disconnect and postpone the game... that is nice towards the administration but sucks for your opponent.
This seems to be the path the site most encourages us to go.
In regard of Nr.2 there is actually a clause that allows you to stay on legal grounds: You can check back with the administration and basically get a free pass from them to conceed.
However, if you have dealt with the admins you know that they aren't exactly all the time around, besides the problem occurs when time is already of the essence.
In regard to option Nr.3 there are two ways of doing this: You can a) tell your opponent that you are buisy and to postpone or b) simply disconnect and leave.
Both actions have about the same impact: The opponent is confronted with the choice to either abandon the game and ask to get unscheduled or to accept to finish it later. Ergo, the disconnect rules are in effect.
I do not feel like it is healthy for the site to encourage people to utilize the disconnection rules.
Just from looking at how people are pushed to abandon games rather than conceeding them, it is obvious that it is healthier for an online environment if people just got nothing out of their matches rather than the benefits of a concession.
The problem I have with this is that the strict rules we have about finishing games also serve a purpose: When you start a game you're entering a sphere of a risk/benefit evaluation.
If you can get around the risk by dropping off a game then that is unhealthy for the community.
So here starts my actual suggestion.
1. The concession rules don't work for open play, so they were modified.
2. An online environment needs a way to get quickly out of a game.
Conclusion: The concession rules should be changed in a way that they can work in this environment.
So here goes:
1. The winner of a match should just get regular money and recieve 1 MVP.
2. The losing team should get no money. 1 random player should leave the team on a 4+. (No 51+SPP rule.)
3. Abandoning of the concession rules.
The possible threat of losing any valuable player should be enough to stop anyone from a light hearted concession.
With only regular money and no more MVPs the winning team isn't a real profiteur from that kind of matchup either.
The concession rules are not needed. Improper behavior is still coverd by the cheat- and actually by the non-competative-play rules too. |
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Araznaroth
Joined: Oct 08, 2008
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Jan 29, 2013 - 14:22 |
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I believe I saw a concession the other day with both teams just getting one mvp.  |
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Woodstock
Joined: Dec 11, 2004
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Jan 29, 2013 - 14:26 |
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Rules are fine, I see no benefits from your suggestions. |
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Badoek
Joined: May 17, 2009
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Jan 29, 2013 - 14:47 |
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Well, the possible upside would be that concessions are discouraged more and at the same time making a concession to give the other team a benefit less interesting.
So I do see benefits. I also see quite some frustration when your opponent concedes and you get left with hardly anything but that seems like a small price to play if the number of concessions are reduced. |
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The_Murker
Joined: Jan 30, 2011
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Jan 29, 2013 - 15:29 |
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Currently the rough idea is that FUMBBL says conceeding is not acceptable without a good cause. If a player chooses to conceed, he must be prepared to state his cause and defend his actions if an Admin looks into it. Admins have limited time, but have said many times they do look into concessions from time to time to see if they were legal. And certainly look into it if an opponent were to file a support ticket to complain about the concession, which is a good idea if you feel your opponent conceeded illegally and are upset by it.
Admin keeps records on coaches, and we must trust that serial conceeders are identified and dealt with appropriatly. Regardless of personalitlity conflits that arise, I have never seen a coach dealt with unfailrly when it comes to 'disciplinary action'.. if you will.
So, if you have a real life issue, explain it to you opponent politely, and conceed if that is all you feel comfortable doing. Be prepared to explain yourself to Admin if necessary. If you are the type of person who consistantly has 'real life emergencies' (real or fake) and conceeds often, expect there to be rammifications, as concession is not healthy for the community. Admin have a job to do and will need to take action. If they were real emergencies, you won't really care about FUMBBL, now will you? Let admin do their job and don't take it personally.
But simply disconnecting and letting an opponent wait 10+ minutes and then have to file a ticket is a jerk move that is also really not healthy for the community.
Real life is more important than FUMBBL. Respect your opponent, and offer to unschedule, reschedule, or conceed. Let him decide. Trust the site to deal with the rest in a healthy way. It has worked VERY well so far and I get great results from any support ticket I file. (sometimes behind the scenes I'm sure)
Cheers. |
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Join the wait-list. Watch the action. Leave the Empire. Come to Bretonnia! |
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Odium_Khan
Joined: Dec 07, 2003
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Jan 29, 2013 - 16:09 |
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You're not too far off the suggestions for CRP+, Wreckage.
http://www.plasmoids.dk/bbowl/NTBB.htm
See #7 on the list.
And Woodstock, while I can see why the "in-game reason" for concession serves a purpose (so you and a mate cannot take turns conceding with your new teams until all players are at 50 spp and you have five million in the bank), I agree 100% with Wreck. It's actually covered by other rules already. Also, it is ridiculous that IRL situations don't hold as legal reasons for concession. Those should be the only legal reasons, if any. Impossible to control, yes. But common sense. |
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ilpars
Joined: Nov 14, 2012
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Jan 29, 2013 - 16:33 |
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I have a 6 months baby. Although I plan my gaming times according to his sleeping times; sometimes he awake unexpectedly. So no concession rule is sometimes unfair to my opponent. He knows he will win but he has to wait for me. And concession bonus will be too much bonus to him if there was not this rule.
So, Wreckage's suggestion makes much sense to me. The bonus for the benefitter is low enough and penalty of conceeder is high enough to discouarage cheaters. |
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Mr_Foulscumm
Joined: Mar 05, 2005
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Jan 29, 2013 - 16:42 |
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I had a player concede on me because I went to the bathroom. Think that was a pretty good reason. |
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JackassRampant
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
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| Posted:
Jan 29, 2013 - 17:10 |
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I like the concessions rules, at least with the existing restrictions. I do think it would be nice if there were some hard/fast set of in-game triggers that permits a concession without some kind of flag to the moderators (rather than a couple of examples that we get now). Heck, even a boldfaced note that says that you should never concede for RL, unless there is absolutely no way to reschedule in a reasonable time frame.
Re: rl intervening, it's important to keep a sanguine attitude about that stuff. Disconnects happen, weird stuff happens, and that means you reschedule and play a different team until you work it out. If everybody's running in good faith, well, it's kind of annoying but it happens. |
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Lude enixe, obliviscatur timor. |
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The_Murker
Joined: Jan 30, 2011
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Jan 29, 2013 - 17:17 |
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ilpars example is perfect... The REAL rule is "you must only start games you can finish." For this, 90 minutes of free time is reccomended.
If you start a game and can't finish, you are breaking the rules. If it's a real life emergency.. who cares. Conceed, reschedule, or unschedule, whatever is best for your opponent. But if you continually break the rules by not finishing your games, you will be dealt with by Admin, who must do what is best for the site.
So, in ilpars case, yes, his baby comes first, but if his baby wakes up alot, he shouldn't be committing to 90 minute games if he is watching his child. The same goes for people trying to play while at work, if they could get called away. A rare concession here or there for an unexpected reason isn't going to be a huge deal. If it keeps happening.. FUMBBL might not be for you.
Only start games you can finish. Simple. |
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Join the wait-list. Watch the action. Leave the Empire. Come to Bretonnia! |
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osirisx69
Joined: Nov 11, 2010
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Jan 29, 2013 - 17:26 |
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The op suggestion is a great suggestion +1 |
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licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
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Jan 29, 2013 - 17:39 |
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Meh...
R and B are for fun, don't abuse it and who should really care?
Why are people so damn anal about this issue anyway? The admins are pretty good at catching stuff, and pretty good at giving 1st time offenders a chance to correct them selves for the future.
Tournaments and L? Totally different kettle of fish, but I think the rules for those are generally far more clear as to expectations and punishments for failing to meet them.
Someone concedes to me in R for a 'sketchy' reason, what do I really care? It's a one off game with teams that are irrelevant anyway. Report it if you want to, or just shrug your shoulders and move on. The chronic 'abusers' get 'caught' anyway, and dealt with. The guy who thinks he has a 90m window which closes unexpectedly for whatever reason shouldn't get lumped into the same group with the rest of them.
Now personally, I do not start games unless I have a 99.9% chance that I know I will have the ~90m to play it. But I'm not going to judge someone who wants to play with a 90% chance, or whatever.
The Admins can handle this, and they do handle it, just leave it alone already. |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Jan 29, 2013 - 17:43 |
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The major floor with Wreckages system is that the worst conceders tend to rage retire their team anyway, so losing a player from a retired team doesn't make a jot of difference.
Personally, I never give permission to concede for RL reasons or if asked when the criteria of the rules isn't met. You can concede if you want to, but you maybe flagged for it.
All concessions are flagged in our 'violation detector'. I peruse this at least 3 times a week. I don't watch all the concessions, far from it. But serial offenders and ones with low casualties taken I will. Every single week. |
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