Bullroarer4
Joined: Oct 22, 2012
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 Posted:
Jul 22, 2013 - 12:54 |
 
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i have had many stats and no doubles (except for ST+, which i have been told repeatedly you always take on an elf team)
Granted, High tv ranked plays differently than league and has a steeper learning curve. SB on the blitzer was probably a waste, but the ag on the lino has helped me, especially this match
http://www.fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=match&op=view&id=3435875
this was the first shot at a major (GLT, i believe)
an unlucky string of deaths the last four matches trimmed a stat freak dodge catcher, a well developed marking blitzer, and a pair of quality linemen. I preferred to sit with 13 players (12 may be better?) with as much blodge/wrodge as possible, barring stats, and the ability to bench a developing player or two on an opening kick off. a few PMs have recommended retire the bloaty players, drop in tv, and build up the team again, this time keeping the number of positionals lower and carry more lineelves. |
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Catalyst32
Joined: Jul 14, 2008
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Jul 23, 2013 - 05:09 |
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Those PM's must not really believe in their advice not to share it in the thread. Hmmm. 
If you are going to drop the "bloaty" players... Why not just retire the team and start over? See how that works.
There are various ways to play most teams. You have to develop your own style and I applaud you for looking for advice.
I like to play with 1 Thrower, 3 Catchers and 1 Blitzer so that I have plenty of speed and durability. On Offense I like to be able to send 1 Catcher down each sideline with he 3rd in the backfield to receive a pass and run forward to hand-off (or take in himself) OR to hang out on the backside of the Cage to hand-off should the cage begin to collapse OR just to help with key Blocks and Assists to advance the ball or clean defenders off the cage.
I develop my Thrower as a Running Quarterback Dodge and Sure Hands are key. I follow up with Sure Feet, Block, Leader and Accurate in various orders depending on the position the team is in.
The Blitzer is my Key Hitter. On Doubles he takes Mighty Blow. He gets Tackle 1st followed by Dodge. Eventually he will have Dauntless, Jump Up, and Pro. If he becomes a Legend without rolling a double I guess I would take Frenzy.
Early on I will use 2 Blitzers to have another player with Block. This also increases my odds of rolling a Double on 1 of them. I will not sack the player but I will not replace him IF I have enough Block on my Line Elves and/or Catchers.
I don't worry about dead Catchers because I find them very useful with just 1 skill and they will get that in 1 or 2 games usually. That skill is Dodge. After that I develop them various ways but usually 1 at a time.
I try to get each Catcher to at least 16spps before I hire the next one but sometimes I do differently. Much of this depends on the current needs of the team. But in general the 2nd skill is Block or Wrestle.
A Wrestler is being groomed as a Sacker and/or Sweeper. As a Sacker the Catcher is ideal with his MA8 he can hang out safely in my defensive formation and still get to the ball wherever it is. That speed also serves him well as a Sweeper.
Sacker - Leap at 31spps, Strip Ball, Pro and Juggernaut on a Double.
Sweeper - Tackle at 31spps followed by Side Step, Frenzy and Fend. Mighty Blow on a Double. He takes Side Step to help shut down a run up the sidelines that may have out flanked my Linemen or busted through them.
A player with Block is being groomed as a Scoring Machine and/or Man Marker. Both options take Side Step as their 3rd Skill with the Man Marker taking Diving Tackle as the 4th followed by Tackle and Fend should he ever survive (but he won't). For this reason I would probably take Guard on a Man Marker knowing it would be short lived. The scoring Machine needs Sprint, Sure Feet and Fend with Nerves of Steel on a Double.
I prefer to Man Mark with a Lineman but if I do not have a player ready to accept this role I will use a Catcher in this role while I build.
I tend to start about 1/2 of my Linemen with Block and the other 1/2 with Dodge. Not surprising there. The players with Block are being groomed to be secondary Blitzers and to replace the Blitzer I don't tend to keep. They get Tackle 2nd followed by Dodge, Side Step, Fend but the would take Guard on a Double (unless I don't have any Mighty Blow).
Players with Dodge are generally my main Fodder and I am not necessarily trying to build them. They are usually useful enough without any other skills. However I do like to use Linemen with Dodge to score on offense. If I can find a way to sneak them away from the point of attack and into scoring position I will do so. I do this just as much as a decoy as a scoring threat.
To me it is like a chess move designed to make your opponent make a choice. They can either adequately mark this Lineman (or Blitz him) to remove his threat to score and thereby lose players at the point of attack. Or they can ignore him at their peril.
Anyways. That is some of what works for me. It isn't typical in some ways and is very typical in others but this is what works for me. |
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JimmyFantastic
Joined: Feb 06, 2007
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Jul 23, 2013 - 09:02 |
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I disagree with nearly all of that! |
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Rat_Salat
Joined: Apr 22, 2011
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Jul 23, 2013 - 09:51 |
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Lol, I'm with you jimmy =)
I mean come on, one blitzer? |
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Verminardo
Joined: Sep 27, 2006
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Jul 23, 2013 - 11:18 |
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I don't have statistics at hand but it seems to me High Elves are the least played Elf team on Fumbbl. I wonder why that is? Sure, at low TV they struggle because of their lack of essential skills, but I always thought that at high TV they should move ahead of Pro Elves and Dark Elves. Isn't that so? |
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JimmyFantastic
Joined: Feb 06, 2007
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Jul 23, 2013 - 11:28 |
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They should yes, but they have more trouble replacing players than Dark Elfs do. |
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Pull down the veil - actively bad for the hobby! |
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Bullroarer4
Joined: Oct 22, 2012
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Jul 23, 2013 - 19:46 |
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isn't a HE blitzer is essentially a lino with starting block and a MA+ for 30k more? thats a good deal (if a little expensive upfront) |
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Tenacious doesn't begin to describe me. Never give up, never surrender |
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Hitonagashi
Joined: Apr 09, 2006
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Jul 23, 2013 - 20:20 |
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| Verminardo wrote: | | I don't have statistics at hand but it seems to me High Elves are the least played Elf team on Fumbbl. I wonder why that is? Sure, at low TV they struggle because of their lack of essential skills, but I always thought that at high TV they should move ahead of Pro Elves and Dark Elves. Isn't that so? |
The Lanterns have yet to meet a single High Elf team in 241 games in the Blackbox. I've played Goblins 3 times...
The problem with the blitzers (and I say this as a 2 blitzer fan) is that they are expensive, and they die a lot.
Once you have 2-3 catchers, I found in order to score with a blitzer, you have to expose a catcher to a blitz. It's not hard per se to skill a blitzer to blodge, but I reckon, every other blitzer I hire in the Box will get permed before Dodge. When they cost 100k a pop, and you are losing 1-3 linos a game, that's an expensive replacement cost.
That said, High Elves I think are possibly the most underestimated race. I won the toronto TT league with High Elves in my first season, beating some 2380 TV chaos (I was 1500 TV) in the final. With Blodging positionals, dodge linos, a MB for doubles, and a frenzy catcher, they can actually bash at 'hyperbash' quite effectively, and transition swiftly to a standard balling strategy if it starts failing. |
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http://www.calculateyour.tv - an easy way to work out specific team builds.
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Rat_Salat
Joined: Apr 22, 2011
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Jul 24, 2013 - 09:18 |
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I'm having fun playing high elves, but they are definitely a step down from some of the other elf teams.
Wood Elves get the wardancers, who are clearly superior to the HE Blitzers. I prefer the Wood Elf thrower, with his 7MA. Even the wood elf catcher is a much better player out of the box, even with the 2str. Having extra armor on all your non-catchers is pretty nice, but then there's the whole treeman grab/sprint catcher thing that makes woodies so much better at oneturning.
Dark Elves are just better. They get 2 extra blitzers and a better 7AV player in the witch elf. 6 players are one step from blodge and one double away from being an attrition piece. The runner isn't as good as the HE thrower, but you don't even have to use them, or the lackluster assassins.
What you DO get from high elves is similar offensive potential to woodies, and the ability to play strong positional defense like Dark Elves. You don't get the easy one-turning of Woodies, or the frenzy and hitting power of Darkies, but you get enough of each to win some games. |
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Bullroarer4
Joined: Oct 22, 2012
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Jul 24, 2013 - 22:46 |
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So...to follow your train of though, high elves are weaker dark elves and pro elves are weaker wood elves? Do I track properly, or are they more like comparing apples to oranges, both fruit (they play a baller game) but the flavor is completely different among the four teams? |
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Tenacious doesn't begin to describe me. Never give up, never surrender |
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C3I2
Joined: Feb 08, 2005
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Jul 24, 2013 - 23:00 |
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Somebody wrote that you can play High Elfs as Dark Elfs but you can´t play Dark Elfs as High elfs. This is an essential truism, I view HEs as strong, but you need to build really carefully, and it takes longer time. You got to moneyball them even more then DEs if you want catchers (and you want them).
So, you can build a really, really, strong top team with HEs, but its just a pain in the arse, compared with starting woodies and be good at start for example. Or, bash a bit harder (at lower TV) and ball a bit less with DEs. That would make them an aquired taste indeed.
But then there is the fun passing game, not a winner, but soooo much fun. |
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Catalyst32
Joined: Jul 14, 2008
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Jul 30, 2013 - 07:41 |
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| Rat_Salat wrote: | Lol, I'm with you jimmy =)
I mean come on, one blitzer? |
Did you read it? It isn't 1 Blitzer to start with... it is 1 Blitzer when developed because you only need 1 when developed. By that time Multiple Linemen and at least 2 of the 3 Catchers can handle secondary Blitzing duties.
I just laid out how I play High Elves and I find it to be highly effective so long as I don't get diced. |
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Rat_Salat
Joined: Apr 22, 2011
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Jul 30, 2013 - 08:16 |
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How does starting with three AV7 players with one block and 2 rerolls work better than taking an all-AV8 team with 2 block and 3 rerolls? It really doesn't.
Rookie High Elves play a slow caging game, not a fast-break offense. That comes later. |
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Catalyst32
Joined: Jul 14, 2008
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Jul 30, 2013 - 20:10 |
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I did not say I START with 3 Catchers. I said I prefer to PLAY with a line-up with 3 Catcher. Big difference there.
And I would contend that Rookie High Elves are just as capable of running a fast-break offense early on as they are later. Mainly because their opponents during those Rookie matches are against teams that are often less equipped to stop them. Especially if you have the speed of a Catcher and the ball movement skills of a Thrower to focus your attack. A Linemen on the opposite side of the field is a good enough threat to score against Rookie opponent. Especially (again) if you have a Catcher drawing all the focus to him (and he does that because if he doesn't they can't stop him). |
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