RandomOracle
Joined: Jan 11, 2004
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Apr 02, 2004 - 09:55 |
 
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mUst
Joined: Jan 05, 2004
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Apr 02, 2004 - 10:04 |
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well what the is it you dont understand... everyone have said the same, yes accurate is better then strongarm, no strongarm dont work with dumboff, and yes it might seem odd that its a trait and worse then the skill, but thats how the game was made and thats how we play it.
you keep saying thats not the point that not the point either then ask a more speccific question.. |
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Xeterog
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Apr 02, 2004 - 12:19 |
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One way to think of it..by making Strong arm a trait, only players with passing skill access can obtain it. Basically means that anyone can become accuate at throwing the ball, but only those dedicated to passing will eventually develop a strong arm (supposidely from throwing the ball alot in practice and in games...or something) |
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DoubleSkulls
Joined: Oct 05, 2003
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Apr 02, 2004 - 13:08 |
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| SubSonic wrote: | | So once again... shouldnt acc rather be trait than SA? |
Yes, but it isn't. |
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Ian 'Double Skulls' Williams
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Thunderhammer
Joined: Feb 17, 2004
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Apr 02, 2004 - 13:21 |
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As far as I understand the rules the negative modifiers for range can never be negated, unless you you actually make the pass on the roll.
For example, an Elf Thrower (AG4) has accurate and will throw a longbomb. He's surrounded (2 tackle zones, and more to come) and it's critical that he doesn't fumble, but a misthrow is ok since any teammate could always pick up the ball on 2+ in another turn.
With accurate he'll pass on 4+, which is 6+ for the tacklezones. Fumble will be on 1-5. With strong arm, it's the same but fumbles would be on 1-4. See the difference?
A bit extreme example perhaps, but as you see Strong Arm is better when fumbling is your primary concern. Accurate just improves dice rolling, while Strong Arm actually does something specialized, reducing fumble range.
So I think it's fair for a trait, and I will always take it for a master passer. |
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Freefragger
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Apr 02, 2004 - 13:33 |
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Am I the only one who see the obvios reason? one of them is going to be a trait right? and since SA reduce the band one, it would be very nice for TTM, since it (as already stated earlier) would reduce the chance of a fumble, and (not to sure about this tho) should allow throwing stunties further... |
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Thunderhammer
Joined: Feb 17, 2004
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Apr 02, 2004 - 14:10 |
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Even more it would allow stunties to throw longbombs. |
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phillier
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Apr 02, 2004 - 14:23 |
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Throwing an accurate pass takes skill which is something you must practice, throwing the ball a long way takes strength which is inherent in a person and hence a trait. Ever watch a sporting event and hear the announcers describe what a person does by saying "that boy was born with that, you cant learn it" . So it seems that maybe it may have been decided where to put the increases not by which is more valuable but by where it would logically go. But then again chickens dont have lips so what do I know. |
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DoubleSkulls
Joined: Oct 05, 2003
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Apr 02, 2004 - 15:13 |
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| Freefragger wrote: | | Am I the only one who see the obvios reason? one of them is going to be a trait right? and since SA reduce the band one, it would be very nice for TTM, since it (as already stated earlier) would reduce the chance of a fumble, and (not to sure about this tho) should allow throwing stunties further... |
Accurate doesn't effect TTM anyway. Strong Arm wouldn't either, even if it were accessible. |
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Ian 'Double Skulls' Williams
Eucalyptus Bowl |
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Gibbering_Gambits
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Apr 02, 2004 - 15:22 |
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A Football player can train to become a dead-eye, on-target, good pen-and-paper passer. Lets say Jake Delholme(?)-like. His completion percentage was great, lets say he has the 'accurate' skill not a phenominal player but great. There is a lendary QB named Joe Montana; he could do the same thing, except with 20 yards more consistant range, he won 4 Super Bowl rings, lets argue he had 'accurate and strong arm' (and more  ) One might say that Dan Marino while amassing unbeleivable record-setting completion yards (21,000 more than Joe) failed to win even a single Super Bowl ring, maybe, just maybe, he had the 'strong(est) arm' and not as much skill (or supporting cast blah blah i'm not arguing that point).
So basically in a feeble attempt to justify this in the 'real world' you can train to get more accurate, but you've got to be exceptional to be strong armed and average accuracy, but if you are strong armed AND accurate you could be legendary like Montana.
P.S. Stunties cant access Passing traits, nor can big guys |
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Bendrig
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Apr 02, 2004 - 16:08 |
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| SubSonic wrote: |
So once again... shouldnt acc rather be trait than SA? |
No.
Because then you would get an undue discrepancy between teams whose thrower rolls a double and one whose doesn't.
You'd also be taking the option of a "reasonable" thrower away for teams who don't have a player with acces to passing skills, if those teams are willing to sacrifice the doubles to build one. |
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cjohnsto
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Apr 02, 2004 - 18:04 |
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I think a nice change for strong arm would be that it adds another range to the end, Very Long bomb. No other benifits, this would be ample benifit and a very useful trait in my opinion. I know that this is not the place to discuss the chage if we want it to really happen but would it be too powerfull, underpowered, would people take it since it the extra range would be at -3? |
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Darkwolf
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Apr 02, 2004 - 18:12 |
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Imagine 5ag throwers out there with accurate and strong arm, throwing the DEEP pass on a 3+.
In the NFL, there are a ton of quaterbacks with cannons for an arm. The good ones throw hard AND with accuracy. So Bloodbowl does have it a bit backwards. But allowing accurate as the skill, lets coaches open up the passing game. |
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Check out the latest Darkwolf "***Did you know?" in his bio! Each month, a new Darkwolf factoid!
http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=coachinfo&coach=768 |
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MacLeod
Joined: Feb 27, 2004
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Apr 02, 2004 - 18:23 |
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I know dumping a reality argument in a fantasy game is a no no, but accuracy is a skill. It is something that can be trained and worked. Strength is a trait, you're born with it, or not. Yes, strength can be increased, but what you start with (in BB now) is indicative of your race's profile. I.E. Saurus' are stronger than skinks. Accuracy doesn't start off at the same levels in a racial profile because it cannot be measured. Therefore, things that can be trained because they are a measure of mind power are skills. Things that are a measure of body use (strength, agility) are traits. Accuracy is a skill, SA is a trait.
Please make sure you attend the next class promptly, there will be a test.
Mac |
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BadMrMojo
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Apr 02, 2004 - 18:41 |
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| SubSonic wrote: | | ...Arguments like "SA is good because it stacks with acc" make no sense really, as the main point was to compare them. So talking bout how well they stack is beside the point... |
Well, does it make sense to you to say that one of them should be a trait and one of them should be a skill because they stack and having both of them available on regular skill choices (for a passer) is excessive? Good.  Now read on...
| SubSonic wrote: | And acc and pass (iirc) work with dump off, and SA doesnt so in that sense acc is better aswell...
So once again... shouldnt acc rather be trait than SA? |
Accurate helps all your throws including quick passes (which includes dump-offs as well). Strong Arm helps all your throws except quick passes (so no use on dump-off) and has the additional bonus of reducing the odds of fumbling on long bombs. That makes Strong Arm a more specialized ability (long bombs being less common than quick passes) rather than a more powerful one. Passing specialization is primarily the domain of dedicated throwers... hence the Passing Trait.
Is this the best reasoning? Maybe not... but there is at least some logic to it. |
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