Kam
Joined: Nov 06, 2012
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 Posted:
Apr 29, 2013 - 21:18 |
 
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| Calcium wrote: | | Ganabul wrote: | | It's boring to spec. |
you're having a laugh right?
ClawPOMB games get more specs than any other game outside of majors/smacks/BBB games. You may find it boring to spec, but I can assure you that many specs don't find it boring. So you sir are in a minority  |
I beg to differ. Flings vs dorfs games attract more people. Or Khemris for that matter.
So... Existential question #1: why do people enjoy violent games the most as a spectator (not just CPOMB games)? It's BB after all, so there's nothing wrong with that. But in this case, why do they (NB: including myself) in the meantime despise teams they love to specs, even if it's for the sake of the almighty /booing?
Existential question #2: why do I love to play against this one Khemri coach who's all about fouling and killing stuff for instance, and hate to play against some other killing machines? Could it be because the guy's actually nice and fun to play against while others are just.. Hum... HM said not to try to swear.
So what is the real problem? The killing? The "gameplay"? The attitude of those coaches? The global warming?  |
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GLN 17 is out!
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pythrr
Joined: Mar 07, 2006
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| Posted:
Apr 29, 2013 - 21:21 |
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| licker wrote: | this isn't a thread about min/maxed zon teams  |
Oh, how about them minmax amazon teams then? |
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Overhamsteren
Joined: May 27, 2006
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| Posted:
Apr 29, 2013 - 21:26 |
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PAGE 5!!!!! |
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Like a Tiger Defying the Laws of Gravity
Thanks to the BBRC for all the great work you did. |
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Mr_Foulscumm
Joined: Mar 05, 2005
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| Posted:
Apr 29, 2013 - 21:32 |
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Well, hopefully the new Blood Bowl box coming out this summer will have a new set of rules so we can all get past this horrid combo and start whining about something new.
This is getting old. At least the old DP threads had style. |
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Everybody's favorite coach on FUMBBL |
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huff
Joined: Dec 19, 2009
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Apr 29, 2013 - 21:36 |
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| Synn wrote: | Brilliant Harvestmouse!
__Synn |
I like this guy Synn.
@Jimmy- You have brought up billion dollar industries and you are a known minmaxer so I don't know what to say.
@Licker- you have the right of it, I really am only talking of mixmax and not the CPomb. Although I think there is a problem with the CPOMB stack, that is beyond our control and left to the rules committee I suppose. Unless Fumbbl just makes its own rules committee and the site follows that. Would make sense seeing the shear amount of coaches and games played on here. |
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member1234
Joined: Mar 09, 2005
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| Posted:
Apr 29, 2013 - 21:42 |
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Ok, so half serious post.
I play Chaos, I only play Chaos, I have played Chaos for 17 years or so. I hate CPOMB.
New rules, yay, LRB4... not the greatest fan. I like smashing mens, it's fun. I like winning when I have smashed many mens. I like that Chaos don't have such a massive uphill struggle early on and don't have to pray for a few doubles any more. Seemed perfect.
I played the new Chaos, I CPOMBed, I had some fun, I got bored after about 100 games.
Cookie cutter builds, bash games decided on random cas Dice, actualy *helping* elfball in some environments since CPOMB and the meta stops balanced builds. Gone are the bash vs bash positional wars, gone is the character of when a player actually manages some scary rolls. (dime a dozen CPOMB vs a non crippled Claw RSC player!) Mutations galore.... but pure vanilla.
Ranked it is, try and play a more balanced team... play some personal Meta for a bit of fun. Try and get games..... Still not feeling it.
Off to Stunty then! (This at least I thank CPOMB for!)
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Give me Chaos that are harder to play, but with their character back! For the love of Nuffle! |
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dode74
Joined: Aug 14, 2009
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| Posted:
Apr 29, 2013 - 21:47 |
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| licker wrote: | | Anyway, I hope you understand that the basic complaint isn't so much about cpomb as it is about those ridiculous min/maxed cpomb teams which exist to simply beat 1000tv rookie teams. |
Then the problem lies with the matching system, which is itself a house rule.
That said, I think it happens a lot less than people generally think, although that will entirely depend on how you are defining noob-hunting. If you assume all the potential noob-hunting happens when hunter is at low TV and developed while the rook is, well, a rook, then look at games where both teams are sub-1250TV and one team has 5 or fewer games while the other has 25 or more then you get the following from B:
Total games: 32224
Games affected: 904
Percentage: 2.805%
So only ~3% of all games are potentially between noob-hunters (assuming you accept that definition) and rookies. Of those games the hunter wins ~64%.
Obviously the number of games affected varies with the definition of noob-hunter.
VoodooMike came up with a better solution for matchmaking on a blog of his. |
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Mr_Foulscumm
Joined: Mar 05, 2005
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| Posted:
Apr 29, 2013 - 21:50 |
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| member1234 wrote: |
Cookie cutter builds, bash games decided on random cas Dice, actualy *helping* elfball in some environments since CPOMB and the meta stops balanced builds. Gone are the bash vs bash positional wars, gone is the character of when a player actually manages some scary rolls. (dime a dozen CPOMB vs a non crippled Claw RSC player!) Mutations galore.... but pure vanilla.
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This is by far my biggest gripe with CRP.
Clawpomb turns a game of positioning into Yahtzee.
Also clawpomb made Dwarfs and Orcs cool... shame on you!  |
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Everybody's favorite coach on FUMBBL |
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jimimothybodles
Joined: Mar 31, 2004
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| Posted:
Apr 29, 2013 - 21:56 |
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I OWN THAT GUY!
LET ME CHOOSE HIS SKILLS! (If he lives long enough!) |
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"Give a man a match, and he'll be warm for a day.
Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
~Ancient Snotling Proverb |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
Apr 29, 2013 - 22:18 |
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| dode74 wrote: |
So only ~3% of all games are potentially between noob-hunters (assuming you accept that definition) and rookies. Of those games the hunter wins ~64%. |
3%?
Hmm.
More interesting to me would be what % of rookie teams' games (say first five) are against teams with more than say 15 games.
Still, if this was all really such a big deal I guess we'd nerf CPOMB and implement TS and match/apply inducements based on that. |
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O[L]C 2016 Swiss! - April ---- All Star Bowl - Teams of Stars - 5 more teams needed |
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dode74
Joined: Aug 14, 2009
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| Posted:
Apr 29, 2013 - 22:43 |
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Easy enough: 3.96% of games happen at all TVs where one team has 5 or fewer games and the other has 15 or more. |
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licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
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| Posted:
Apr 29, 2013 - 22:46 |
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| dode74 wrote: | | licker wrote: | | Anyway, I hope you understand that the basic complaint isn't so much about cpomb as it is about those ridiculous min/maxed cpomb teams which exist to simply beat 1000tv rookie teams. |
Then the problem lies with the matching system, which is itself a house rule.
That said, I think it happens a lot less than people generally think, although that will entirely depend on how you are defining noob-hunting. If you assume all the potential noob-hunting happens when hunter is at low TV and developed while the rook is, well, a rook, then look at games where both teams are sub-1250TV and one team has 5 or fewer games while the other has 25 or more then you get the following from B:
Total games: 32224
Games affected: 904
Percentage: 2.805%
So only ~3% of all games are potentially between noob-hunters (assuming you accept that definition) and rookies. Of those games the hunter wins ~64%.
Obviously the number of games affected varies with the definition of noob-hunter.
VoodooMike came up with a better solution for matchmaking on a blog of his. |
this isn't the thread for that discussion though.
I'm not sure anyone reasonable disputes that the min/max problem is magnified by the matching system though. Only debate is about how much it actually bothers various people.
More to the point though, 3% or whatever the number is is sort of irrelevant to me. The fact that there exist these teams and coaches who deliberately play them just to... do whatever... (pad their win%, be a douche, show off their ePeen, ...) is the issue.
It's a problem that could be solved by changing the mechanics of CPOMB, but doing that would probably still just lead to whatever the next big complaint is going to be.
It's a problem that should be solved by the community changing the acceptance of such practices, and some in the community do more to that end than others. Still, freedom to play as you wish is a powerful counter argument to any form of 'arbitrary' restrictions. Even when that argument may be counter to the longevity of the community as a whole.
*shrug* |
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dode74
Joined: Aug 14, 2009
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| Posted:
Apr 29, 2013 - 23:01 |
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| Quote: | this isn't the thread for that discussion though.
...
The fact that there exist these teams and coaches who deliberately play them just to... do whatever... (pad their win%, be a douche, show off their ePeen, ...) is the issue. |
Their ability to do so depends solely on their ability to inflate their on-pitch effectiveness with respect to the matching criteria though, making this exactly the thread for that discussion if it is CPOMBing Noobhunters (rather than just CPOMBers) which are the issue, and you suggest that they are.
CPOMB happens in all environments, but they don't get to prey on noob teams in any environment but TV-based matching such as B. Change the matching mechanism for one which better represents on-pitch effectiveness and you resolve the issue. Assuming, of course, you (generic) think the issue is worth solving. |
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Woodstock
Joined: Dec 11, 2004
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| Posted:
Apr 29, 2013 - 23:03 |
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Licker gets it... give the man a magic sponge! |
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Dan-Da-Man
Joined: May 14, 2012
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| Posted:
Apr 29, 2013 - 23:03 |
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| Calcium wrote: |
you're having a laugh right?
ClawPOMB games get more specs than any other game outside of majors/smacks/BBB games. You may find it boring to spec, but I can assure you that many specs don't find it boring. So you sir are in a minority |
So wrong!!
People spec because they love listening to the clmbpo coach whine when there only plan A noob tactic goes wrong and they get there arse kicked.
Thats what we enjoy watching. |
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