nickcrap
Joined: Sep 17, 2012
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Jun 13, 2013 - 17:13 |
 
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this may be an ongoing thread for me as i prepare for the second season of my TT league. there are other ideas but this one will have the largest impact on gameplay, possibly.
i am the commisioner of a local BB league and i need the 'experts' opinion on the idea of expanding SPP rewards for our next season.
first, my league is a rag-tag collection of eight coaches skewing heavily toward the beginner skill level. we get together every four to six weeks for double-headers, have a great time, roll some dice and, hopefully, kill the menz! we're coming to the end of our first season, finally, and i'm looking to liven things up a bit.
one piece in particular is the expansion of SPP rewards to KOs, fouls, surfs and catches.
KOs, fouls and surfs are straight forward: 1 SPP for any of the following, but fouls and surfs need to inflict casualties. the fluff is easy because the player is giving the rabid lunatics we call a 'crowd' what they paid for … however, why not KO results from fouls and surfs? i feel like a KO from open play is a bit more dramatic than simply booting someone unconscious. also, you don't have the AV roll on surfs. regardless, i like this but worry it's rewarding the bash a bit too much.
SPP for catches is a bit more difficult, but i think there is a solution there as well: 1 SPP for catching an accurate pass from a length of short or longer. originally it was going to be 1 SPP for any accurate pass catch, but then i came to my senses and quick passes don't suffice. again, the fluff is there because passing is the 'hold your breath' moment in any game, so completing/catching a passing play would make the crowd go crazy. now i'm wondering if it should be only long or long bomb length passes?
a quick note about my league: the level of skill certainly lends itself to the more idealistic version of the game, meaning, more passing and less cynical team building or SPP farming. for example, i have an undead team playing the 'brazilian' version of blood bowl, flinging the damn ball all over the place while constantly running ghouls deep into the opponent's half regardless of the ball's location. so, the introduction of expanded SPP doesn't cause concern that play will shift to exploit these new SPP categories. the coaches are just having fun with the game and building their teams.
what i'm worried about is breaking the game open a bit more than intended. i don't feel like 1 SPP for these actions will do this but wanted the community's opinion before i 'ruin' my local league.
so, astute or asinine? |
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pythrr
Joined: Mar 07, 2006
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Jun 13, 2013 - 17:17 |
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you can use whatever houserules you like, BUT......
for kos --- silly.
for fouls --- hell yes, back to the good old days!
for surfs --- why?
for catches --- sure, bribe them elfs who will do it every turn. and then again every other turn for lols. |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Jun 13, 2013 - 17:42 |
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KOs-no
Surfs-yes
Catches-heavily favours elven teams
Fouls-no
You could set up game objectives, that help to improve their game play. Something like 'push your ball carrier out of a tackle zone with a chain push' pusher gets 2 spp. and then you could show them an example of doing this, and the benefits of doing it.
Stuff like that. |
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mrbibitte3
Joined: Mar 28, 2013
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Jun 13, 2013 - 17:50 |
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As I understand it, it seems your coaches simply do not play enough games to level their players at a speed that keeps things interesting. That's a very common problem since many leagues gather "older" coaches who run families and demanding jobs. A simple solution to this, instead of adding new rewards, is to double the amount of SPP generated by actions.
Depending on the frequency at which games are played, if leveling up goes too quickly, double the amount of SPP generated on only the first 2 player levels, then revert to normal SPP rewards when a player reaches the "veteran" level.
It'll help keep things interesting. |
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nickcrap
Joined: Sep 17, 2012
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Jun 13, 2013 - 20:13 |
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interesting responses.
pythrr & HM -- why no on KOs? would that overpower MB? or you just don't believe KOs are worthy of SPPs?
bibitte has it partially right. we don't play often enough where player development feels natural, but also, the coaches themselves are part of that equation. some coaches can go through a game without getting much more than the MVP points. the coaches have become better over the course of the season, but some teams are falling behind a bit in development. maybe it's just unlucky AV/INJ dice?
as for accelerating or doubling the SPPs up to 16 or another experience level, i'm hesitant to do this because i don't want to complicate the game more than it already is. some of the coaches are new to dice games -- sports fans with nerdy tendencies -- and others are casual gamers to the nth degree.
anyways, i thought single SPPs for some simple tasks may help broaden the game a bit -- kind of like HM's idea about chain pushing -- or give players new ideas about offensive and defensive strategies. |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Jun 13, 2013 - 20:30 |
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KOs give too much advantage to the heavy blocking teams, like Norse and Dwarfs.
I guess...........1 spp isn't so bad, but if you look how many kos are in a match compared to injuries. This would lead to a huge proportion of spp being gained in this manner.
The chainpush your carrier out of a tackle zone is an example. Of course with thought you can think of many more. |
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uzkulak
Joined: Mar 30, 2004
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Jun 13, 2013 - 21:13 |
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Why not just allow a 2nd mvp roll? Most additional on pitch spp will end up with the better coaches anyway and rather than act as an equalizer will create more of a gap. |
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Nelphine
Joined: Apr 01, 2011
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Jun 13, 2013 - 21:24 |
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as a note:
generally speaking you'll end up with less than 50% more KO's than cas. (Exactly 50% when no MB is involved, and only 10% more when MB is involved; since most pitch removals come from MB players, this means you'd probably end up with somewhere between 15 and 30% more KOs than cas).
So for a bash team that gets 5 cas/game (high end clawpomb), you'll end up with around 6 KOs/game (which would net you an extra 6 SPP on top of the 10 you already gained from cas).
For a mid bashy team that gets 3 cas/game (4+ MB with at least 1 PO), you'll end up with 4 KO's/game, would would be an extra 4 SPP on top of the 6 you already got.
For a low bashy team (elves) you'll get 1 or 2 cas per game, and probably 2 or 3 KO's per game.
This means your SPP gain from blocks will increase by around 50-75% over the long term, regardless of the type of team you play.
Conversely, an agi 3 team will probably get 2 completions per game, instead of the usual 1, gaining you an extra 3 SPP; an agi 4 team will probably get 4 completions per game instead of the usual 2, for an extra 6 SPP.
This actually doesn't seem all that unbalanced.
The teams that fare the worst in this system are teams that are not heavy bash, but also can't pass - lizardmen spring to mind. Other hybrid teams that choose to play the positional game (orcs with guard as first choice on all players) would also be hurt by this system. |
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nickcrap
Joined: Sep 17, 2012
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Jun 14, 2013 - 16:16 |
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thanks, nelphine. was wondering when the 'math' would be brought to this thread.
with how much my coaches like to toss the ball around, i thought the catch SPP would balance the bash. plus, a good portion of the coaches are not actively looking for the bash, which sounds weird, but if you watched them play ... shrug.
the idea of adding a second MVP roll makes a lot of sense. keeps either side of the equation (bash/agility) from becoming broken and allows for continued growth. i will have to think on that suggestion. |
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Dalfort
Joined: Jun 23, 2008
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Jun 14, 2013 - 16:30 |
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| uzkulak wrote: | | Why not just allow a 2nd mvp roll? Most additional on pitch spp will end up with the better coaches anyway and rather than act as an equalizer will create more of a gap. |
+1 but... allow each to nominate the MVP of the other team AND a random "fan/crowd" based one or if team building is really slow allow both coaches to nominate 1 each and dispense with the random bit totally.
In second edition player earned exp pts for surviving a game (1 spp max) but had to spend at least a full turn on the pitch. Iirc the Catching spp was a single award too so regardless of how many catches are caught they only get 1 spp, but I also half remember if a player held the ball (from a hand off, pick-up etc) that awarded a single spp too. These were detailed in the red Companion book and expended to training points to be used for RR, although the RR rules where a little different back then too.
Also I cannot quite see how doubling the first 2 skill bands for spp awards is any more complicated than adding to the list of actions/events that award spp. At the end of the day ask your players for their thoughts, we (FUMMBL users) can give you plenty of ideas but its your groups time we are talking about.
Take care Dalfort. |
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cameronhawkins
Joined: Aug 19, 2011
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Jun 14, 2013 - 16:54 |
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I think long-term, +1 for KOs is a bad, as some games are just very KO heavy.
If I were trying to increase SPP gain in my TT league, I would give the following:
+1 SPP: "First Blood" Award –– first player in match (or half) to cause a KO or casualty.
+2 SPP: Coach's Choice Award: Given to the player of your choice in post-match.
Note that the ability to give SPP to the player of your choice will greatly increase skill accumulation while only slightly increasing raw-SPP gain for the team.
If you want more, I think
+1: Completion or catch of a Long-Bomb
+1: Casualty against a player of ST5+
+1: Casualty against a player of 16+ SPP.
+1: Casualty on a foul.
It would also be nice to reward particularly 'epic' ball-related plays, like "Advancing the ball X squares in a single turn", and "Catching a pass and then scoring a TD", or strategic successes, like "Scoring while kicking", "Scoring in the first 2 turns of a half" or "Successfully defending for 8 turns". The problem is that it's not obvious which player is deserving of the extra credit there. |
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ilpars
Joined: Nov 14, 2012
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Jun 14, 2013 - 17:15 |
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For the players who are in the field for the entire match +1 SPP. |
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Daudy
Joined: Aug 28, 2008
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Jun 14, 2013 - 17:17 |
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You could also draw up a bunch of one off 'awards' achievable by teams each season.
E.g.
Bonus MVP for your first win by 2 or more TDs
Bonus MVP for dishing out at least 3 more casualties than your opponent in a single game
Bonus 2SPP for surfing a player
so on and so forth.
These achievements are available to all teams in the league, but only achievable once per team. So even if you have multiple 2-0 wins, you only get the bonus mvp the first time. It kind of ties into HM's idea of objectives in a way (though probably a little less specific). Careful consideration is required to create a set of achievements that provide equal favouritism towards different types of teams. For every agility based achievement, there should be a more bashy equivalent, but both should not be out of reach for opposing types of teams to achieve.
Perhaps also create league wide individual awards that are handed out to winning players each season. No gamebreaking amounts, but something that adds to the fluff. Say, a +2 SPP trophy for the player with the most casualties in a season and a +2 SPP trophy for the player with the most TDs. You could see coaches all compete to try score/hit the most with their respective star players. Star players of the team attempting to go for individual glory sounds highly appropriate! It gives coaches who might be at the bottom of the league ladder something to aim for, even if it's not an overall league title. |
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nickcrap
Joined: Sep 17, 2012
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Jun 14, 2013 - 21:34 |
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wow. loads of good ideas in here. making rethink my original ideas quite a bit. keep them coming, please.
i very much like the more goal-oriented ideas being thrown out, especially when you can posit them like achievements in video games. it becomes a checklist to push coaches to certain strategies.
why didn't i consult you geniuses before the start of S1? bah. |
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nickcrap
Joined: Sep 17, 2012
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Jul 23, 2013 - 15:43 |
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turning this conversation a bit: looks like we will have 2-4 coaches selecting new teams for S2.
simple question - TV1000 and let them have fun with inducements or do you buff them a bit, to say TV1100 with restrictions on skill dispersion like a TT tourney?
two notes:
- end of season TV for the teams moving to S2 will be anywhere from 1600 to 1300 or so. i don't want the new teams coming right into the mix, but wasn't sure if they shouldn't get a bit of a buff.
- the top two coaches are changing and likely the last place coach. on one hand, it would be nice to buff the guy who struggled through S1, but then the top coaches would be buffed as well. |
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