Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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 Posted:
Jul 04, 2013 - 17:33 |
 
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| Nightbird wrote: | | Garion wrote: | | yeah i didnt doubt it, but it seems mental to me. They are all aligned to the wrong wizards, would like to read the book to find out why tbh. |
To an extent I agree, but Jade representing Greenskins...surely this jives.
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not in the slightest. Jade wizards are about trees, earth etc... basically wood elf magic. |
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Nightbird
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jul 04, 2013 - 17:35 |
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| Garion wrote: | | Nightbird wrote: | | Garion wrote: | | yeah i didnt doubt it, but it seems mental to me. They are all aligned to the wrong wizards, would like to read the book to find out why tbh. |
To an extent I agree, but Jade representing Greenskins...surely this jives.
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not in the slightest. Jade wizards are about trees, earth etc... basically wood elf magic. |
Ahhhh...see, I don't have that fluffy info. Is there a link you can point me to sir? That's defo something I'd like to study to make some more informed decisions. I'm all aboot fluff & I want it all to jive together well. The fluff is a huge reason I love Bloodbowl!  |
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"If most of us remain ignorant of ourselves, it's because self-knowledge is painful
& we prefer the pleasures of illusion." ~Aldous Huxley |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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| Posted:
Jul 04, 2013 - 17:37 |
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Nightbird
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jul 04, 2013 - 17:40 |
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| Garion wrote: | http://warhammeronline.wikia.com/wiki/Colleges_of_Magic
there are probly others too, just google colleges of magic warhammer |
Nice!
Thanks for that.
 Only 8 of the 10 Colleges though..
Hmmm, from reading it seems the Dark Order is separate & called the Dark Convent for Dark Elf sorceresses?
And the Rainbow order is just made up likely? |
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"If most of us remain ignorant of ourselves, it's because self-knowledge is painful
& we prefer the pleasures of illusion." ~Aldous Huxley
Last edited by Nightbird on %b %04, %2013 - %17:%Jul; edited 2 times in total |
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gjopie
Joined: Oct 27, 2009
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| Posted:
Jul 04, 2013 - 17:47 |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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| Posted:
Jul 04, 2013 - 17:55 |
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its because there are kind of only 8, though there is also Dark and High magic. High Magic is someone who has the power of all 8 colleges (high elf mages basically). Dark is daemons and stuff iirc
oh and yes rainbow is just made up. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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| Posted:
Jul 04, 2013 - 17:58 |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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| Posted:
Jul 04, 2013 - 18:15 |
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Rainbow isn't made up, the name has just been replaced with Silver, and it is 'high magic'.
The idea of the colleges was way before they went into so much detail with them. Therefore I think they can be considered separate.
What I'm saying is, you should either use rosters totally or races. Therefore you couldn't use say 'Nurgle' as this is a roster not a race. The idea of the colleges was to put 3 races together, that.....may or may not usually be used together and given a fluff reason why they should be used together.
As an example you could make poo colour college, the college of rotting stink.
Main= Rotters
Secondary= Rotting Chaos Dwarfs
Tertiary= My god you look dead Chaos Warriors
Fluff: 'Dude that's rotten.' 'Hey, you eat a curry of nurgle and try to smell better!'
This is the kind of idea and humour behind making a Dungeon Bowl roster. |
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spubbbba
Joined: Jul 31, 2006
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Jul 04, 2013 - 19:25 |
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I don’t think the old primary, secondary and tertiary model of team design really works for the crp world with us having 24 teams. It's messy and unnecessarily complicated.
There needs to be a balancing act between having more options than a conventional BB team but still keeping an individual flavour for each roster. If every team has cheap fodder, a big guy, bashy players and fast agile ones then it is actually less interesting.
The difficulty is that big guys used to be a separate race and are now contained within rosters, they are also much better in dungeonbowl (particularly the deathroller). Another issue is that you can end up with too many options in some cases and some teams end up being pretty much worthless as an option.
An idea I had that seemed to go down quite well on the cyanide Dungeonbowl forum was rather than picking from 3 existing rosters we should create new mixed race teams in a similar way to Underworld or Pact.
For instance
Light
0-16 Halflings
0-2 Dwarf Blockers
0-2 Dwarf Blitzers
0-2 Dwarf Runners
0-1 Deathroller
0-2 Halfling Treemen (but you can only take 2 if there is no deathroller)
This would be the only team I’d allow the very powerful deathroller in compensation for having flings as your default players since you can only have a max of 8 non-fling players on the team.
You wouldn’t have to limit yourself to 3 teams and could just pick from 2 like above or even 4+ if there were suitable players.
Jade
0-16 Goblins
0-2 Underworld Goblins
0-3 Goblin Secret weapons (no ball and chain)
0-2 Orc Linemen
0-2 Orc Blitzers
0-2 Orc Throwers
0-2 Trolls
0-2 Snotlings
I quite liked the idea of expanding the old lrb4 multiple big guy option as well.
If you were to make an combined team from the 4 undead rosters then something like
Amethyst
0-16 Zombies, skeletons or thralls
0-2 from Mummies, Flesh Golems or Tomb Guardians
0-2 from Ghouls or Thro-ras
0-2 from Wights or Blitz-ras
0-2 from Werewolves or Vampires (vamps can only bite thralls or ghouls)
I think just like in normal Bloodbowl some teams should be deliberately weaker than others, in the example above both the Light and Jade teams would harder to win with than the Amethyst team IMO.
This could be tweaked somewhat by adding in animosity or adding/removing loner to/from certain players. |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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| Posted:
Jul 04, 2013 - 19:52 |
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The Cyanide thread didn't really understand 2nd ed and how it worked and why the rosters were as they were. I think we need to start from the...........start. And personally, I think the old format still works.
In second edition there were no mixed race rosters, apart from.........mixed race rosters, which were patchy.
So no Undead, CD, Necro, Chaos, Nurgle etc etc as they were now. Everything was race based.
Big guys were an exception. For example, Mummies played on a skeleton team. This is a fundamental point of understanding DB. It was the way at the time of making mixed race rosters.
So making say.......Undead as a 'secondary' race defeats the object. This isn't a race but a roster. You have zombies, skeletons, mummies, ghouls and wights. That's 5 different races. With the second ed roster, skeletons have 3 different positions. Similar to khemri skeletons (who in reality have linos, blitzers and throwers).
The next point that needs to be understood is exactly what main, secondary and tertiary slots meant. It meant that main were 3/4 or 100% (I forget of the roster) secondary were 50% and tertiary were 25% of the roster.
So let's say you had 'pro elves' as 50% this meant you could take 0-8 line men, 0-1 blitzer, 0-2 catchers and 0-1 throwers, to a maximum of 8 players. All are of the same race, so it's ok.
The Celestial Comets were the exemption, where the tertiary race was elf blitzers. meaning they could take 1 extra blitzer than normal elf rosters.
Therefore, if you want to make CRP DB rosters, you can't think of rosters themselves. You need to think about races and disregard rosters. Think about races that could play together for a fluff reason, and then add them together to form a college.
An example:
The sexually alluring college of the damned.
This is a university for the most beautiful of female vampires. As such the most handsome of men are attracted to hanging around the college hoping to go out with one of the students for a quick bite. What's more the college is based on an old Ameroica burial ground.
Main- humans who love dominating women.
Secondary-Zombies
Tertiary-lovely vampire students
So what does this mean to the roster?
You could, just field a human team as of crp. However for every non human field this means your quotas are lowered. Let's say you fielded 50% zombies, this means your quotas are halved. I.e. 2 bltizers, 2 catchers and 1 thrower. Or you could field 50% human, 25% zombies and 25% vampires. Again, you can only take 50% of the human roster.
Bottom line with the hypothetical roster is, you can take between 50% and 100% of the human roster, depending on how much of the main race you take.
This is all about race not roster. So if a race doesn't have positionals, it makes a bad main race, and out of character. |
Last edited by harvestmouse on %b %04, %2013 - %20:%Jul; edited 2 times in total |
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Nightbird
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jul 04, 2013 - 19:53 |
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@spubbbba: Interesting idea & it has some merit for what I'm looking to do, but I'm still inclined to have all 10 Colleges & stick closely to what came first w/ the main, secondary & tertiary races. While it might not be so interesting to others the mixed race theme & tiers is very interesting to me. One thing to understand is that for all intents & purposes, & this won't be for everyone's liking, is that I'm trying to create all tier 1 teams if possible (and I know it's likely not gonna work out that way in the end!). This is meant to be a one-off set where both teams can be different, thus each will be interesting to choose & fit certain tastes, but still have the same chance to win as the other. It may be a bit over the top in places, but to me anyway, that is the fun part & the point really as I don't intend for this to end up as a league or a super competitive set. I mean there are lava pits, roaming monsters & exploding chests, now that is fun!
I will agree w/ your point on 'races being contained in rosters problem', which I've discussed below in regards to harvestmouse's post.
@Garion: Thanks I will check that out.
@Harvestmouse: Yes I get what you mean now & agree. It's one of the things I've been pondering. Example: I don't want to say that goblins are part of the orc 'roster', so I suppose I'm inclined to go w/ 'races'. That makes some rosters have to meld together, such as chaos, pact & nurgle as they would all be part of the chaos 'race'. Even though chaos is not a 'race' per se, but there has to be some yielding to such things to make this work. |
_________________
"If most of us remain ignorant of ourselves, it's because self-knowledge is painful
& we prefer the pleasures of illusion." ~Aldous Huxley |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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| Posted:
Jul 04, 2013 - 20:03 |
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Well I edited my post before you posted, so my conclusion is that main races should be races with various positionals. A Chaos based roster which are always difficult, could be an exception.
Here you have the opportunity to make chaos god alliance rosters. So looking at that 'Nurgle' in reality is a DB style roster in itself. |
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Nightbird
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jul 04, 2013 - 20:17 |
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| harvestmouse wrote: | Well I edited my post before you posted, so my conclusion is that main races should be races with various positionals. A Chaos based roster which are always difficult, could be an exception.
Here you have the opportunity to make chaos god alliance rosters. So looking at that 'Nurgle' in reality is a DB style roster in itself. |
Yes, the more I think about it, the more I realize that saying 'race' or 'roster' isn't going to work in all cases & it will likely need to be a bit of both to make it work out like I want to in the end. 2nd Ed. was a diff. animal.
Ok, please continue discussing & thanks much for all the input so far. Much appreciated. This is all very interesting to me & I look forward to hashing it all out & making it work fluff-wise.
Time for me to start w/ the Independence Day celebrations erm...libations! |
_________________
"If most of us remain ignorant of ourselves, it's because self-knowledge is painful
& we prefer the pleasures of illusion." ~Aldous Huxley |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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| Posted:
Jul 04, 2013 - 20:23 |
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I think it can still work. You just have to pick a main race that has various positionals.
Something like.....the Chaos roster for example, is a DB roster already. Think about your fluff and why you would cut and then remix the rosters.
Publishing such rosters though, you're onto nothing but a hiding.
Another example:
college of Sand:
main skeletons (khemri skeletons, and skeleton positionals).
secondary: human arabians (av7 human linos)
tertiary: mummies
this is another example of a roster you could build. It's different but fair and a bit of fluff behind it. Your imagination is your limit really. |
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spubbbba
Joined: Jul 31, 2006
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| Posted:
Jul 04, 2013 - 21:57 |
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| Nightbird wrote: | @spubbbba: Interesting idea & it has some merit for what I'm looking to do, but I'm still inclined to have all 10 Colleges & stick closely to what came first w/ the main, secondary & tertiary races. While it might not be so interesting to others the mixed race theme & tiers is very interesting to me. One thing to understand is that for all intents & purposes, & this won't be for everyone's liking, is that I'm trying to create all tier 1 teams if possible (and I know it's likely not gonna work out that way in the end!). This is meant to be a one-off set where both teams can be different, thus each will be interesting to choose & fit certain tastes, but still have the same chance to win as the other. It may be a bit over the top in places, but to me anyway, that is the fun part & the point really as I don't intend for this to end up as a league or a super competitive set. I mean there are lava pits, roaming monsters & exploding chests, now that is fun!
I will agree w/ your point on 'races being contained in rosters problem', which I've discussed below in regards to harvestmouse's post.
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You can still pretty much do that using my method and incorporating harvestmouse's reduction of positonals by limiting the numbers. So if dwarfs were a tertiary race make Blitzers 0-1, slayers 0-1, runners 0-1 and blockers either 0-3 or 0-6 but a maximum of 6 dwarfs.
For a lot of teams if they are stuck in secondary or tertiary they will pretty much be ignored. Or you end up with so many great choices that the team has no linemen. Another risk is that the other choices counteract the deliberate weaknesses of a team that make it interesting, so wood elf catchers on a dwarf team for instance.
What I wanted to avoid is having to look at 5 different tables when picking a team. You risk needing to look atall 3 rosters, the limitations of positional, who counts as what position and any other limitations on being secondary or tertiary.
But if you can have all that contained in 1 team sheet it makes things simpler. Plus you can better fit in players from all 24 teams. |
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