Sp00keh
Joined: Dec 06, 2011
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 Posted:
Nov 03, 2013 - 12:51 |
 
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LINEUP
0-16 Horrors 50k
4 2 3 7
Dodge, Jump Up, Regeneration, Right Stuff, Stunty, Throw Team Mate
AM, GSP
0-2 Greater Horrors 75k
5 2 3 7
Dodge, Regeneration, Throw Team Mate
GAM, SP
0-2 Flamers 80k
6 3 3 7
Bombardier, Leap, No Hands, Regeneration, Safe Throw, Sprint, Very Long Legs
A, GSPM
0-2 Firewyrms 110k
4 5 4 8
Loner, Bombardier, Foul Appearance, No Hands, Regeneration, Safe Throw, Wild Animal
ASM, GP
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Such a strange team
Advantages:
+Regeneration on all players
+Mutation access on all players
+Decent stats
+4 Bombers with Safe Throw
+Throw-team-mate
+Flexible
+Some mobility
Disadvantages:
-Negatraits of Loner, Wild Animal, and No Hands
-Low movement
-Fairly expensive players
-Confusing and weird team
In turn 1 you're potentially throwing around 3 blocks on the LOS, a blitz, 4 bombs, a foul and a thrown horror...
This thread is to help try and make sense of this really alien team.
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NOTES
You can only throw 1 team mate per turn.
You can't throw team mate and pass the ball in the same turn.
You can move and throw team mate, so you can stand up from prone (with Jump Up) and throw a team mate.
You can't throw a prone player.
If the thrown player suffers an armour break, it doesn't end turn.
If the thrown player lands on one of your other players and breaks their armour, it does end turn.
You can throw 1 bomb per bomber per turn.
You can't move and throw a bomb.
You can't standup from prone and throw a bomb.
If a bomb causes an armour roll on your own players, it will end your turn.
If a bomb is fumbled and causes an armour break on your own players, it does end turn, so don't stand lots of your players next to the bombers.
Fire Wyrm requires a 4+ Wild Animal roll to throw a bomb, if failed it does nothing.
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One of the problems with the team that isn't immediately obvious, when to do bombs?
Frequently you'll want to throw bombs to clear a screen then try and blitz something tasty, but its risky so you should probably do safer things first.
Second problem with the team, what to do with each player?
The players who can throw bombs are unfortunately also the ones with highest strength and have No Hands so seem suitable to wade into scrum and/or do your blitzing.
Flamers, especially on a rookie team, are good at blitzing as with str3 they usually don't need an assist. They leap on a 3+ and they can't be screened against easily. They're almost like bad War Dancers...
As the team grows, build the Greater Horrors into blitzers then you can keep the Flamers back and only blitz with them if you need emergency sweepers.
The Fire Wyrms have all 3 of the negatraits suffered by the team, and are most suitable to brawl, but that means not using their agi4 bombing ability.
Wild Animal means you want to blitz with them so you can move them around more easily, and get 3 dice on someone while you're doing it. But there's still 1-in-6 it'll roar instead, wasting the blitz.
Once Firewyrms have got Tentacles or Mighty Blow, you'll be better wading them into a brawl rather than trying to throw a bomb. It’s a 4+ Wild Animal either way but more benefit from blocking and tying up players.
Greater Horrors look like a good option for ball carrier, but it means you give up a reliable blitzer or potential block on the LOS.
They also look visually really similar to normal Horrors, so its good idea to mark them with shift+click.
Horrors are strange. Standard stunty stats apart from move4 with jump-up on a 2+, can throw each other.
When planning the blocking sequence of your turn, if you've got any Horrors prone they can Jump Up and block.
Throw Team Mate is only occasionally useful. Use it to gain movement, to attack a cage...
The problem with throwing a Horror into a cage is that you'll likely want to bomb it as well, but sending Horror in first makes it more likely to end your turn.
So the safest sequence would be: blitz, TTM, bombs. But probably that's the reverse way of how you'd want to try to steal the ball...
The bomb throwing is potentially great and the team potentially has loads of damage output, but more often than not it doesn't reach close to that because you have to compromise on risk.
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ONE TURNING
Is more viable than it first seems.
Need to throw a Horror to within 6 squares of end zone, so it needs to gain 7 squares from elsewhere.
A Greater Horror can throw a Horror 6 squares on a 3+
(if a normal Horror does the throw, it’s on a 4+, due to being stunty)
By moving a Greater Horror across the line to in front of a Horror, you move the launch point for the throw forward by 1, throw it 6, then it can move 4+2, so if it doesn't scatter back he has enough reach.
This means it doesn't require any pushes from blitz so you don't need to handover into a tacklezone.
The hardest thing is likely to be getting the ball to the Horror you're trying to throw, you have much less reach on that side of things as you can't pass the ball if you're going to TTM.
If the ball is within easy reach then probably shove the Horror forward a square or 2 though, with blitz pushes in case he scatters badly, and to move out of opponent tackle zones.
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SKILLS
Fire Wyrm:
Initially I thought Mighty Blow, Claw, Pile On. But this is thinking from official roster BB.
Pile On with move-4 Wild Animal is bad idea, it detracts from Tentacles and Guard, and if next turn you blitz to get him to his feet he then only has a 1-square threat radius before you're doing GFI's with Loner
Instead- Mighty Blow, Tentacles, Dodge.
Also useful is Claw if it has Mighty Blow. Stand Firm and Guard. Break Tackle if it has Dodge.
Block and Tackle on doubles.
Flamer:
Dodge, Side Step - but mainly hope for doubles for passing skills
Greater Horror:
Block, Tackle, Horns - then more blitzer skills. Mighty Blow on a double.
Horror:
Diving Tackle has great synergy with their Jump Up. Next would be Side Step.
If you get +MA +ST or +AG then make that one your carrier, and (unless it was +AG) give it Two Heads, Big Hand etc.
Block on a double. |
Last edited by Sp00keh on %b %17, %2014 - %22:%Feb; edited 8 times in total |
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Crook666
Joined: Oct 16, 2012
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| Posted:
Nov 03, 2013 - 13:19 |
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hi and welcome to Stunty!
Horrors need more tactic than other teams, they aren't bashers and they can't inflict great damage until the Greater Horrors get tackle/block.
I haven't played them too much, but surely they have 2 good points: TTM and bombs.
Develop your Flamers as dedicated bombers, they have safe throw as starting skill and you can throw bombs in cages, with the chance of hitting the ball carrier and make a good slaughter. They must have dodge too, so that is a good skill to give them.
Firewyrms are the worst big guys in stunty IMO, with loner and wild animal they suck. They must act as support for the team, occasionally blitzing and blocking and throwing bombs. Tentacles is good IMO, dodge as well as they will stay on their feet (feet?)longer.
Your other guys are no bashers and no fast runners, so tactic should be trying to knock down opponents with bombs, some lucky block, moving the ball carrier and his friends in the rear until you have a good chance to TTM and fly over the defense. try to develop a good Horror ball carrier with side step, two heads, extra arms, +AG is very good as he will land on his feet more often.
Good luck. Once Horrors where one of the most feared teams in Stunty, but these days they have hard times on the pitch.
At high TV they are fearsome, though. |
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uzkulak
Joined: Mar 30, 2004
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Nov 03, 2013 - 13:22 |
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Johnny_KTOU
Joined: Aug 11, 2008
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Nov 03, 2013 - 13:23 |
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Haven't hardly played them, I'v found it all very useful. Thank you.
Just a quick note, throwinf a team mate onto one of your own players does cause a turnover. But you're right, if the thrown/fumbled player get knocked over, it's not a turnover. |
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xnoelx
Joined: Jun 05, 2012
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Nov 03, 2013 - 14:56 |
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1. It's not a bug that a Greater Horror is better at TTM than a little Horror. It's because of the -1 for throwing because of Stunty.
2. Firewyrms are MA4, not 5, so PO is even worse than you said.
3. TTM will result in a turnover if the player you throw has the ball and doesn't make his landing.
4. A Greater Horror as a carrier is a waste; use the little guys for that. You can't throw the GH, and they are your most reliable blitzers, plus the only ones with access to Block and Tackle. Having only one of them as a blitzer is often going to leave you short on firepower if it gets taken out or tied up.
5. Horrors are awesome, the best* team in all of Blood Bowl; regular or Stunty Leeg. They're difficult to use, but the lack of clear definition on the 4 bombers is a good thing; it gives you so many options for them, instead of just one tediously predictable standard skill-track like most other players in the game.
(*Note that best here means most fun, not winningest. Definitely not that.) |
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cameronhawkins
Joined: Aug 19, 2011
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| Posted:
Nov 03, 2013 - 14:59 |
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A few points––
• Av7 Regen is amazingly durable for a stunty team. (Actually, I find playing against horrors almost un-fun for this reason.)
• For this reason, they don't really need to foul, because they can usually achieve player advantage simply by playing.
• Because of Safe Throw, you usually don't need to wait until the end of the turn to bomb the same way you do with other races.
• Greater Horrors shouldn't be ball-carriers (they can't be thrown, and it's a waste of skills). Give your first normal Horror who skills Extra Arms, then wait for one to roll +AG, since this is good for both 1-turners and slow drives.
• Normal Horrors throw on a 4+ because Stunty applies -1 to throwing anything. |
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Sp00keh
Joined: Dec 06, 2011
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| Posted:
Nov 03, 2013 - 18:31 |
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thanks for comments
i've edit somethings based on feedback, i didn't realise stunty gave -1 to passing
i thought greater horrors were a good fit for carrier since the +1 move and they can get block / sure hands on normal roll, but yea maybe its better to give that to normal horrors (who can stunty through tacklezones when dodging) and leave GH to bash
its good to say develop flamers as bombers but they need doubles for all the P skills, which is kinda annoying. maybe they should have access to it on a normal to buff the team?
and yea i think i agree that firewyrms are kinda disappointing. they dont even have mighty blow |
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cameronhawkins
Joined: Aug 19, 2011
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Nov 03, 2013 - 18:44 |
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Flamers lack of access to P is specifically off-set by their lack of Stunty and Secret Weapon. When developed, they're less reliable, but stick around longer.
Firewyrms are frustrating, but they're also unpredictable, in a good way. Ag4 lets them pull off some ridiculous Bombing and Dodging plays. They're certainly not the core of the team, but they play well into its theme and strengths. |
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Beerox
Joined: Feb 14, 2008
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Nov 03, 2013 - 20:24 |
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Good observations listed here.
For me, the great thing about horrors is this:
In normal BB, and even most of stunty leeg, there are 2 basic strategies available.
1: Bash
2: Ball
But horrors are a whole new ball game and it's a lot of fun.
3: Whatever it is that Horrors do
Having said this, I've found myself winning far more games after developing a Block Tackle MB blitzer... AG4 horrors are a nuffle-send as well.
Random ramblings:
-With MA4 and no hands all over the dang pitch, it is always hard to score.
-Skilling up the bombers is almost entirely dependent upon MVPs. Very slow going on those. And the skills available to Flamers are pretty boring without doubles. Agility skills only for a no hands player - so no catch, no diving catch, and they already have leap and sprint. So they have the agility list minus 4. Don't worry you'll skill up again after 20 games or so.
-Fouling with a 50k regen player is not a good idea IMO, except maybe in the second half.
-TTM is hugely unreliable. But with AV7 and jump up, you can almost settle for a failed landing.
-Lack of well-defined roles makes the team interesting. I guess this is how they get their own category of playstyle.
-Try too hard (too many bombs, TTM, etc) and the team can easily implode, losing the game right off the bat.
It's tough sledding, but the most fun I've had in stunty. Finally over .500 with them. |
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Shinomune
Joined: Apr 04, 2009
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Mar 27, 2014 - 20:40 |
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Thanks for the tips  |
_________________
| harvestmouse wrote: | | It's a selfish, attention seeking little boy; who is terrible at the game. |
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Smeat
Joined: Nov 19, 2006
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| Posted:
Mar 27, 2014 - 21:29 |
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| Sp00keh wrote: | | One of the problems with the team that isn't immediately obvious, when to do bombs? |
Bomb all menz! (do I even have to say it?)
Bombing at the end of a turn is safest, b/c even w/ Safe Throw a missed bomb can land so far off-target, and a fumble guarantees a knockdown of the thrower, Turn over. (NOTE: S.T. aborts Fumbles on thrown Balls only, not Bombs or TTM!)
If(!) you want to go the Bomber route, your Flamers live for the Pass skill, and/or +Ag. With only [A] access, they can get Dodge (and Sure Feet & SS etc.), but there are SO many doubles-skills they cry out for! Pass and then Accurate + Strong Arm for the ultimate bomber, altho' there are other options if bombs aren't your thing*.
(* Block (+ Dodge + Sure Feet) makes a mobile St 3 Blodge hitter with MA = 6+3 = ~9(!) - ymmv, but most will go Bomber.)
Bottom line, a doubles-skill makes such a huge difference, and this is one positional that is not overly expensive, so if it doesn't double in the first 2-3 skills, it might be worth it to sack and try again for doubles.
Meanwhile, your Firewyrms can only throw a bomb 50% of the time (Wild Animal = 4+ if not Block/Blitz), and Loner means you don't want to RR failed/fumbled bombs, so that is probably a wasted doubles - ymmv, but without [G] access something like Block jumps to mind first for this St 5 Ag 4 powerhouse (or Pro - diff discussion, but a (rare) valid choice on this guy imo). But with ASM access, there are enough good skills to keep them busy - Ag 4 Dodge, MB, Guard, and/or dealer's choice on Mutations. And they always have Ag 4 Bomber in their back pocket for a coin-toss game saver if you really need it.  |
_________________
Let's go A.P.E.!
(...and what exactly do you think they do with all those dead players?...) |
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skoberget
Joined: Sep 16, 2013
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Mar 28, 2014 - 15:14 |
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I was fortunate enough to roll doubles as first skill on both my flamers (one was even 6+6 but I choose to ignore it as it wasn't as much fun...)
First one got Hail Mary Pass.
Second one got Accurate.
If first gets another double I'll go with Pass. He's often far back and lobs bombs, pass will save me some rerolls.
If second gets another double I'm tempted to get strong arm instead of pass. Pass is probably the more sane option here but strong arm is the more fun choice. He will be able to throw accurate bomb (quick,short) on a 2+. The fun part is he can long bomb bomb(4+ accurate,2-3 scatter) and only fumble them on a 1.. |
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WhatBall
Joined: Aug 21, 2008
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Mar 28, 2014 - 15:31 |
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You gave up 6+6 on a Flamer? 
I would have gone +ST for more cage breaking/blitzing madness, or Block (or Tackle), well before Passing skills. Grats on the rolls though... |
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gjopie
Joined: Oct 27, 2009
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Mar 28, 2014 - 15:35 |
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I took Pass on both my flamers too, and my team has a pretty good record (in fact, so good I can no longer get anyone to accept games with them!) I've lost count of the number of times the Pass skill has helped me out - I'd definitely recommend it for first doubles roll on a flamer.
I would have taken +ST though! |
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skoberget
Joined: Sep 16, 2013
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Apr 16, 2014 - 11:47 |
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I tend to use my Greater horrors as blitzers. 1D with block/tackle is usually a better deal than 2D without block/tackle if you are trying to break into a cage - also 3+ dodge (with dodge skills) works better than 3+ leap which is the usual case for getting into a cage.
Str 4 felt a bit like too much bloat for a guy that I usually won't be blitzing with anyhow - and he can't carry the ball either. Having him with HMP flinging bombs all over the place has turned out to be a great investment - and it's much more fun too |
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